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| Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=24771 |
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| Author: | SpeakerToMachines [ Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
Grudge match - Iyanden vs Tyranids: http://sdahl.net/~sdahl/whepic/20130304/ It's my first game with the Iyanden list; My opponent thought the highly mobile Wraithguard formations to be somewhat overpowered. Any thoughts on that? |
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| Author: | Simulated Knave [ Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
Did rolling play any factor in his rather total annihilation? |
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| Author: | SpeakerToMachines [ Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
Simulated Knave wrote: Did rolling play any factor in his rather total annihilation? The wraithguards and Wave serpents did make more of their saves than usual, but mostly the reason for the onesidedness was the insane amount of FF4+ dice dished out by the Eldar. For instance, the first engagement had 22 FF4+ and 12 FF4+MW attacks, against poorly armoured gaunts. Under those circumstances, combat resolution just through casualties inflicted will do massive damage to a set of intermingled formations. This effect is compounded by the high mobility of the Iyanden wraithguard - their opponent really has no way of avoiding them, which is of course the usual way of dealing with hard, but expensive formations. The Iyanden wraithguard is definitely a hammer, it's just not a glass hammer anymore. |
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| Author: | Markconz [ Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
In my experience Iyanden is very tough opponent, wraithguard perhaps overpowered. Doesn't help that current Tyranid list also has very little answer to Eldar with all the skimmers and high FF. In fact Tyranid list has been slaughtered by most opponents in the few games I have played with or against it. |
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| Author: | Simulated Knave [ Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
At least the galaxy's safe from the ravages of the Great Devourer?  On the bright side, the Wave Serpents would be easy to fix if they're a problem. Dunno about Air Assaulting. I've never really compared the stats on Wraithguard to their 40K stats before. They're...rather good. |
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| Author: | SpeakerToMachines [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
Simulated Knave wrote: At least the galaxy's safe from the ravages of the Great Devourer? Markconz wrote: In fact Tyranid list has been slaughtered by most opponents in the few games I have played with or against it. As a prospective Tyranid player, I'd like list to represent the Great Devourer rather than the Intimidated Nibbler... Simulated Knave wrote: On the bright side, the Wave Serpents would be easy to fix if they're a problem. Dunno about Air Assaulting. I think the easiest fix would be to change the formation to be 4 strong at 250 instead of 6 strong at 300. But this is opinion only, neither researched, nor thought fully through. Simulated Knave wrote: I've never really compared the stats on Wraithguard to their 40K stats before. They're...rather good. In 40K or Epic? I don't know their 40K stats. In Epic, they are definitely on par with Terminators. |
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| Author: | Simulated Knave [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
They're a bit better in Epic than is probably justified by their 40K stats. Among other things, they shouldn't have more MW attacks then sodding Fire Dragons. And should probably just have 3+ armor (or 2+ - RA is excessive). Still. Could be worse. Four per formation would really limit air assaulting, but probably not in a bad way. |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
I've seen a couple of similar issues with Iyanden at Heavy Bolter. The Wraithguard are usually the topic of contention. The problem is do other Eldar lists require them to be "as is...?" Is it feasible to drop the FFMW to 5+? Could their 40K stats warrant it? If not this is epic and balance is more important surely? |
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| Author: | Simulated Knave [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
Shrinking their formation's probably easier than changing their stats. Probably. They should be lethal in FF - Wraithcannon are awesome. They just are probably shootier and tougher than they should be. Though there may be many reasons for both. |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
Don't forget that Eldar vs 'Nids is a very one-sided match at best, because the 'Nids play to the Eldar strengths with lots of FF and skimmer. For example, I quite like using mounted Guardians commanding 2x Jet-bike formations into assaults, yielding 24x FF4+ attacks with moderate armour. Or you can have 'lots' of Night Spinners etc to shoot up at a distance, or . . . . . |
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| Author: | SpeakerToMachines [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
In the specific battle, there really wasn't much in the way of skimmers. The Wave serpents were useful to force FF, but the only other skimmers were Scorpions and Nightspinners (who don't engage anyway). But yes, I agree, Eldar (in whatever flavor) are a nasty matchup for Tyranids. It is perhaps a Tyranid list issue, that there are no builds that are good counters to skimmer FF heavy lists? |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
There looked to be a lot of Tyranid formations/units lost due to intermingling of formations, it appears at least 4 extra formations were lost/broken in the battle report. What was the intent of the Tyranid player with so much intermingling. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
also don't most of the small 'nids have the grot rule? wraithguard are potent but wiping out a nid formation through combat res is a tough deal for anyone, let alone 4 intermingled formations..... agreed with dptdexys, that large intermingled mass is too tempting a target for a clipping engagement..... |
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| Author: | Kyrt [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
Don't forget a Vampire can transport 8 units. Making the formation smaller would mean you can get 8 wraithguard in, rather than being limited to 6. Edited to add: Do any other craftworld lists have formations that can take wraithguard in a vampire? Reducing the formation to 4 and making them take up 2 spots (like they do in wave serpents) would limit their effectiveness. |
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| Author: | Moscovian [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle Report: Iyanden vs Hive Fleet Onachus 4K |
Simulated Knave wrote: They're a bit better in Epic than is probably justified by their 40K stats. Among other things, they shouldn't have more MW attacks then sodding Fire Dragons. And should probably just have 3+ armor (or 2+ - RA is excessive). Still. Could be worse. Four per formation would really limit air assaulting, but probably not in a bad way. FYI 2+ is better than 4+ Reinforced. IIRC it goes something like this (from strongest to weakest)... 2+ 4+ RA 3+ 5+ RA 4+ 6+ RA <-- Although I should note that I have made this 6+ RA save maybe twice in my whole life 5+ 6+ |
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