Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/ |
|
Imperial Fists vs Black Legion http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=19546 |
Page 1 of 2 |
Author: | frogbear [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:18 am ] |
Post subject: | Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
Date: 30/10/2010 Points: 3000 Rules Used Black Legion NetEA doc Imperial Fists V0.5 - small change to Vindicator purchases as per thread ========================== ![]() ========================== Imperial Fists - 3000 425 Tacticals + Crusaders 350 Terminators (Stormhammer) 325 Land Raider Achilles x4 300 Vindicators + Hunter 375 Whirlwinds + Hunter 175 Assault Marines 225 Devastators - 50 Fortifications 225 Devastators - 50 Fortifications 250 Thunderhawk Bomber 150 Thunderbolts 150 Thunderbolts Black Legion - 3000 315 Retinue,+rhino +1 vindicator. 275+40+35 315 Retinue, +rhinos 275+40 385 Retinue, +1 defiler 275+75 165 Chosen+rhino. 125+40 485 Terminators +1 terminator+ Oblitx1 + DP + Warlord 260+65+85+50+25 275 Defiler Pack 160 raptors 275 Deathwheel (model substituted with Land Raider) 275 Deathwheel (model substituted with Land Raider) 175 Hellblade 175 Hellblade ========================== Note: This was Apoc's first game and I do not normally play shooty forces so no doubt we are both making major error. Please be gentle ![]() |
Author: | frogbear [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
Set Up ![]() |
Author: | frogbear [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
Turn 1 - Imperial Fists win initiative No Teleports Thunderbolts Cap Hellblades CAP Thunderhawk GA Raptors - 2 dead and broken Chosen double into Factory shoot at devs for nothing Land Raider Achilles move up and fire on BL Retinue causing 6 hits with Disrupt, killing 5 models and breaking the formation Defilers move forward and fire on Land Raiders killing 1 Vindicators Move forward Death Wheel moves forward to shoot at Tacs. ! hit which is saved Whirlwinds move to back of forest (I mistook their setup with the Vindicators) Deathwheel doubles to shoot at LR Achilles for no hits Assault Marines double towards Raptors Retinue in Rhinos towards factory Tacticals fail activations and remove BM Vindicators move to centre of table Thunderbolts go on CAP Hellblades go on CAP Devs fail and remove BM Devs remain on OW - defiler formation fail to rally - raptors fail to rally ![]() Teleports - BL Termies next to BTS |
Author: | frogbear [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:24 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
Turn 2 - BL win Initiative BL Termies Charge BTS - 6 dead tacticals + 1 dead LR vs 2 dead termies. Marines wiped out and Terminators broken and run into RHS forest Retain with Deathwheel and sustains vs LR Achilles. no kills Achilles fail actions and fire on Terminators killing Obliterators and 2 terminators with BM Deathwheel shoots on Achilles for no hits Thunderhawk GA Retinue with Rhinos. Hellblades CAP for no wounds. Continues killing 2 INF units Defilers Sustain on Achilles killing 1 and breaking the formation Whirlwinds fire on Chosen killing 1 unit and another from the broken Retinue with a Defiler Retinue in Rhino move and shoot on Devs for no hits Vindicators move up to centre table Retinue double to fire upon vindicators for no kills Devs remain on Overwatch Hellblades lose one when coming off the board from Hunter Daemon Prince Rallies All other BL formations fail Teleports - Imperial Fists Titanhammer Termies teleport into forest near Blitz ![]() |
Author: | frogbear [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
![]() |
Author: | Apocolocyntosis [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
frogbear wrote: Note: This was Apoc's first game and I do not normally play shooty forces so no doubt we are both making major error. Please be gentle ![]() 2nd game, just first game playing someone who knew the rules (which generally helps)... ![]() |
Author: | frogbear [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
Turn 3 - Black Legion win the initiative Deathwheel sustains vs Terminators killing 1 Defilers retain and sustain vs Terminators Vindicators Move and use terminators to enable a crossfire vs retinue with Rhinos killing 2 INF units Hellblades stand down Thunderbolts GA Retinue with Rhinos killing 1 INF and 1 AV breaking the formation Deathwheel assaults Terminators. None die however Deathwheel wins by 4 killinjg 2 units leaving 1 to run back to Blitz Thunderbolt GA Chosen killing 1 INF and 1 AV breaking the formation who move into Factory Retinue with Rhinos sustain vs Devs killing 1. Land Raider Achilles move and fire on Daemon Prince for not wounds Assault go back to grab blitz Whirlwinds fire on Daemon Prince for no kill Thunderhawk Bomber GA Daemon Prince for no kill Devastators marshall Devastators remain on Overwatch Terminators fail to rally All other formations rally ![]() Score Black legio: 1 BTS Imperial Fists: 1 DTF |
Author: | frogbear [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
Turn 4 - Black Legion win the initiative Defilers move back to secure own objective and fire on vindicators killing 2 Hellblades retain and go on CAP Land Raider Achilles move and fire on Daemon Prince killing him Deathwheel moves and fires on Vindicators killing none Vindicators get the hell out of dodge and Marshall Retinue with Rhino go into Factory with 3 Rhinos failing DTT. Fire on Devs for no kills Thunderbolts GA Retinue with Defiler. Hellblades CAP killing 1. Thunderbolts continue for no kills. Hellblades CAP Thunderhawk GA Retinue for 1 kill Retinue with Defiler Marshall removing all BM Devatators go on Overwatch Chosen manouvor to capture 2 objectives Devastators reassurt their Overwatch Death Wheel Sustains on Devs for no hits Whirlwinds fire on Retinue in Factory killing 4 and breaking them. Retinue with Rhinos Marshall removing 2 BM Thunderbolts GA Retinue with Defiler. Hellblade CAP for no hits. Run continues killing 1 INF and breaking the formation. Raptors move to deny ATSNP objective Assault move up towards Raptors staying within Blitz ![]() Score Black Legio: 2 BTS and DTF Imperial Fists: 2 BTS and DTF No continuance. Tiebreaker Black Legion: 837.5 Imperial Fists: 1207.5 |
Author: | frogbear [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
Thoughts on the battle to come when I free up some time. |
Author: | Dobbsy [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
Good batrep. I have to say that it still seems odd that a defensive army has to rush out of that defensive area to capture its objectives in the other half of the board. It just seems tactically wrong to me as it forces piecemeal attacks with small formations who have to leave carefully prepared positions and go it alone to win the game. |
Author: | frogbear [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
Dobbsy wrote: I have to say that it still seems odd that a defensive army has to rush out of that defensive area to capture its objectives in the other half of the board. Problem as I see it, is that if you do not force it, you end up with an army that does not move and concentrates on massing out it's firepower - quite boring to play with and against. As it stands, the objectives force you to build an army with these in mind, and if you build your force to sit there and shoot, then you are limiting your options. If initiative rolls had gone a little bit more in the IF favour, you may have seen a different set of achieved objectives which included points on the other side of the board. I find an overall balanced list, rather than a stand and shoot far more preferrable. ![]() |
Author: | Dobbsy [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:04 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
Yeah, I can definitely see your point. My problem is the list is all about Defense, not Defense ... with a bit of attack thrown in. I could see the IF objectives being about denying the oppositon their objectives rather than capturing territory from the attackers. You could very easily get great games from a more sedentary "gun line" theory if you marry it to the the enemy's need to capture the IF defended objectives and the IF's need to deny them. Something like(and I'm sure it could be worded better but...): Stalwart Defense IFs are the masters of defense and consequently they approach the battlefield with a different mindset in terms of objectives, always looking to stop their enemies capturing points of strategic value. IFs gain the TnH, DTF, BTS and Blitz GT objectives only if they deny the capture of their opponent's own objectives in the IF half of the board. They still gain the TSNP objective normally. To me it would generate great fights around objectives and stop the last turn speed rush to capture objs in the enemy half of the board - something I know you're not that keen on. just a brainstorm of course. |
Author: | frogbear [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
That rule would almost be impossible. Effectively the whole game wouuld rely on DTF to get any other points. The opponent would just have to drop a 3xlanda or 3xThunderhawk to prevent them from getting any points (TSNP being a bi-product of them gaining any points). It is just not Epic, and I would not play such a list with a restriction unless all troops were significantly discounted. I like the GT game and the force is made to be able to play in any scenario - rather than force a special rule into a scenario. All defense and no attack makes Frogbear a very grumpy boy. ![]() |
Author: | frogbear [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:02 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
After battle thoughts: Terrain After setting up and placing down the minefields, I had to apologize to Apoc for the map taken. It was from an older game against TRC where we both had assaulting armies to some degree. I did not realize the impact of 50cm lengths of mine till I was able to effectively block off a large area of the battlefield into fire arcs. I will be more aware of the terrain in future reports. The Firebases were fantastic to sit in and the mines were an extra bonus. With Devs sitting in each, it was if the whole area was a kill zone in the opponent's mind. Whether this was an exageration or not, they were quite effective, and I think they are a valuable edition to the force to start ahead of the line to defend their own objectives. The adopted rules for Fortification setups worked fine and after this first game, with the objectives placed as they were, there was no real need to even consider how a different set of rules for their setup would improve the situation. The Battle - Imperial Fists After the boon of the minefields blocking off a large area, I was plagued with bad luck. In addition to confusing my Vindicators and Whirlwinds and therefore totally messing up their setups, I could not win a Strategy Roll after round 1, and it felt like any formation that decided to take a BM ended up failing their initiative roll. Add in the fact that I kept confusing different stats (assaults move 30 - not 35, and Vindicators no longer have MW4+! ) and you have a player who is desperately attempting to claw a strategy together after realising what a dill he is. I did however get incredibly lucky with some Whirlwind fire as well as some saves when it really mattered. These things alone kept me in the game. Overall, quite a comedy of errors where I was lucky enough to come out with a Draw and eventually a win from countback. Overall I do really think the list works well. I would like to keep playing it on different tables however as the terrain in this game favoured the Imperial Fists greatly. I have updated the Imperial Fists thread with changes I think are appropriate for the list. The Battle - Black Legion After seeing the setup of the Imperial Fists, the Black Legion appeared to fear the Overwatch greatly. I felt that it would have been better to trust in the Retinues and Deathwheels to break the defence. Death wheels with their shields and Retinues with their numbers could have charged up the field with guns blazing to then set up a 2nd round free-for-all with their Terminator drop. I feel that Overwatch can be over-rated at times. The Daemon Prince was a pain in the proverbial and I feel I just got lucky in taking him out - thank goodness for the Achiiles Land Raider and their MW. Even then only the one save was failed after many activations worth of shooting at him. Once again the Faction rule was non-existant and again makes me think that it should be scrapped or changed. Also Steve54 (if you are reading this) - please fix the first post in the Black Legion & LatD thread. You have both links in the first post with the first being the one downloaded by people. We came across quite a few errors and discrepancies that needed to be clarified by Apoc downloading the 2nd link (updated one) . Final thoughts A really enjoyable game and we are planning to set up another this week if we can manage it ![]() |
Author: | Apocolocyntosis [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:46 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Imperial Fists vs Black Legion |
Yep, i don't know why i didn't just move the death wheels in either, if not in earlier turns then at least in turn 4 to contest one of your objectives. I feel that i spent rather too much time faffing about at range plinking away on sustain than really getting stuck in, mainly due to having no form of plan for what i was doing ![]() I was pleasantly surprised with how well vassal worked and really enjoyed the game. I feel i now have a much better grasp of the rules, especially aircraft. ![]() For next game i will : * Have a plan rather than just reacting to opponent's moves * Re-read objective set up rules and pay attention to where i put them * Actually read the opponent's list (failure to do so saw me spending the first turn under the illusion that the terminators were being transported in the T-hawk and that the tac+crusader formation was in-fact 6 termies+crusaders... ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC [ DST ] |
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |