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Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=17587		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Honda [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
Ok, I was all set to post up a batrep and when I was doing up the math, it turns out that the Orks were short 200+ pts, which I think puts the results in question. So, my bad (I broke my own rule about creating lists on the spot) and I'll have to get the game replayed.

In the interests of documentation, this is what was played. The purpose of the game was to test out the Crisis spam scenario against a straight in your face Ork list. What I wanted to see was whether or not the Tau could dance around long enough to stay effective throughout the game. As an added constraint, table space at the store was crowded, so we were only able to play on half a table, which I thought would help the Orks. Terrain was moderate, dominated by a large LOF blocking hill on the left, urban ruins on the right, a few LOF blocking ruins in the middle. We also only placed the two Blitz objectives and one additional objective each. The Ork side obj was closer to the Blitz, the Tau side obj towards the middle.

Forces:

Orks

1 x 9 unit Stompa mob
1 x 'Uge Boyz mob (6 Nobs, 18 Boyz)
3 x 'Uge Blitz brigades (12 wagons)
5 x Flak wagons (assigned to the three Blitz bgde)

Tau

1 x Crisis, SC
8 x Crisis
1 x Skysweep (3 Skyrays)

Results:

With more than double the activations, the Tau were able to BM the Blitzes until later in the turn, when other crisis units could jump up in MW range with support of the MLs on the Skysweep and break them one by one. The one engage a blitz got on a crisis, was lost by the Orks by 1 (crisis 3+ saves really helped) greatly assisted by lots of BMs placed by the missile pods. The Stompas were broken by BMs in Turn 2, then attrited by the "army ant" offense of the Tau and destroyed.

After only one Blitz rallied at the end of Turn 2, we called it.

So, I am disappointed that I don't have more accurate results to report, but I will get more games in, hopefully by the end of the week if the Global Warming inspired Arctic storm due in later, doesn't freeze us out.

Next time...and I guess I need to get a calculator into my gaming stuff.

Cheers,
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
Try taking one of the tournament lists from the EpicUK site; I'm not convinced that, for example, 9x stompas are ever going to perform well...
Author:  Honda [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
Good idea, we'll test some of those.

However, in larger games (which tend to characterize our Ork battles 3500+), the 9 Stompas with 4 Dreads and 4 Kcans has been quite a deliverer of pain and is one person's favorite instrument of brutality.

In smaller games, you are probably correct, as it's a lot of points.
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
Quote: (Honda @ Jan. 04 2010, 15:39 )

Orks

1 x 9 unit Stompa mob
1 x 'Uge Boyz mob (6 Nobs, 18 Boyz)
3 x 'Uge Blitz brigades (12 wagons)
5 x Flak wagons (assigned to the three Blitz bgde)

Five activations at 3000 points seems *really* light... I'd expect that Ork army to lose to any other "normal sized" tournament force; it had nothing to do with the actual Tau army.  And the Orks had no Fighta-Bommerz!  And no Oddboyz in the Blitz Brigades... 'Uge Blitz Brigades throwing down 6BP of MW or three TK3+ shots a turn should've been devouring Crisis suits.

Aside - Honda, have you gotten any of my PMs/emails?  I've been getting some bounce-backs from your Hotmail account.
Author:  Honda [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
Chroma,

Understood. This was not intended to be a balanced game (plus we were playing with what we had), so I was not thinking that it would be a fair fight. It should have at least had equal points going for it.

The purpose of the exercise, because that's all it was, was to give me some ideas on what to do with the Tau. There are different issues to deal with in an all crisis list (few to no MLs, higher mobility, 45cm shooting) and I wanted see how it would play.

Please do not think that I am trying to arrive at any conclusions based on this one flawed exercise. I am not.

I'm just posting the results here for others to offer suggestions (thanx E&C) and prepare for follow on games. Also, if someone else saw this and thought, "Hmm, that's kind of funky, what would I do", then that's good as well.

There's no conspiracy here, I'm just letting everyone know what I'm doing.

Quote: 

Aside - Honda, have you gotten any of my PMs/emails?  I've been getting some bounce-backs from your Hotmail account.


I got one back around just before Christmas, but I thought you were unavailable until the new year (I may have misinterpreted that). But that's the only one. I was getting close to my limit on PM's, but cleaned that out quite awhile ago and have been getting PMs from others.

Try again or we can shift to regular email. Sometimes PMing on this board is less than optimal.
Author:  Honda [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
Quote: 

That Tau army wouldn't stand a chance at a tournament, though that Ork list might do a bit worse still!


I'm confused. What part of "this was an exercise" is not coming across? Don't you guys ever just try stuff to see if it works? Do you ever set up unrealistic situations to see what comes out of it?

The exercise was not intended to produce a tournament list. I can't be much clearer than that.

Would you have preferred that I just say, "well, I played an all crisis spam list against orks and the Tau won"? What is it about the transparency of the effort that is causing such a problem?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
Honda: To be fair he's just helping you refine the Ork list so that you can test in a more balanced way next time, and noting his own opinion that the Tau list is poor.
Author:  Man of kent [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
Yep, needs retesting I'm afraid Honda: that's a terrible ork list! (no offence)!

Epic UK site has some nicely balanced versions.
R>
Author:  Honda [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
Ok, I understand. I don't seem to be explaining my intent very well.

We can move on.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
*cough Chroma needs to post our Crisis "spam" game cough*  :laugh:
Author:  Honda [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
First off, my apologies for over-reacting Rug. I just felt like I was in one of those Twilight Zone episodes where everything I say seems to be coming out different.  :laugh:

My bad.

Quote: 

Seeing as you clearly can't popcorn a Crisis Suit spam list and you don't really want to test activation imbalance anyway it would be good if the two sides had the same number of formations too.


I understand the last part of your statement, which makes sense, but the first part is what I have concerns over.

At this point in the development of the list, the last thing I want to see is "some" Tau list showing up at a tournament (obviously not E-UK), and coming up with some combination that tips over all comers lists. It's one thing to say, "Oh, I could handle that if it showed up", but what if it did and you weren't expecting it? The test of any general should not be whether or not you can surprise someone with gimmicks in your list, it's whether you can out perform them (dice withstanding) given the known palette of tools.

I'd like to see the Tau get into some tournaments so that people can really hammer on the list and against it. I think that's where the real stress testing occurs. Nobody is going to give it a chance if the list is perceived to be unbalanced. I think among friendly (if not intense) play, the list is doing Ok. What I don't have a real feel for is if some brainiac figures out "Oh, this plus this is a total win". I guess I just don't think that way. That's why I'm testing extremes, that's how I stress test something.

Apologies again for coming off harsh.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
Quote: 

I think among friendly (if not intense) play, the list is doing Ok

Don't think my playtest battle reports have been anything but merciless.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Crisis Spam Test, Orks vs. Tau
Quote: 

I'd like to see the Tau get into some tournaments so that people can really hammer on the list and against it.

Ask and ye shall receive. I'll be in one on January 23rd weekend. 5 games coming up!

Honda, in the game Chroma and I played, the crisis "spam" list you keep referring to was a fairly average list build. If I could beat Chroma using a standard tourney Eldar list for the first time, then I seriously think your worries are unfounded. I would have beaten him more convincingly (we tied up and I won on VPs) if my die rolls hadn't been so freakishly bad all game - can you say "broken Revenants for 2 out of 4 turns due to failed rallying??" I had a lot of broken formations throughout the game and I had real difficulty getting things to rally.

As a side note - The Skyray formations (your theory was crisis and skyrays dominating, correct?) he used were largely out of action for a portion of the game and when they weren't hid in the deployment zone because they broke so easily.
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