Tactical Command
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Salamanders vs Black legion
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Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Salamanders vs Black legion
Saturday night.
What was going to be a walkover of Sallies vs Siege, became near certain defeat of Sallies vs BlackLegion due to needing a quick game.
If people really want for pictures I can try and make something using vassel to show anything that needs graphical explanation.

Black legion
Chosen on the basis that if its restricted it must be good. Admitably I would go for a few changes and get a few demons as those sudden boosts to mauled formations are great. However Lee didn't as he was unsure of the rules and just wanted to keep things simple. Even then I would have got one focus just in case roll a 6 and get a free demon :)

515 6 Chosen, Demon Prince (wings), Obliterator, BTS
385 Chosen, Demon Prince (hooves), Obliterator
350 Retinue, SC, Obliterator
175 5 Raptors
145 Forlorn hope, 2 rhinos
225 Decimator
300 Decimator and defiler
300 Feral
300 Feral
300 Feral

In essence a BTS guard, a teleporting force and the main body of troops.

Salamanders
275 Warhound
200 Land Speeders
150 Scouts
150 Thunderbolts
375 Terminators, Chaplain
250 Thunderhawk
585 Tactical, Sallies, Redeemer, hunter, Chaplain, 4 Rhinos
525 Devastator, 2 Hunters, 2 Las Razorbacks, SC, Rhino
485 Devastator, Sallies, Librarian, Redeemer, 3 Rhinos

Redeemer stats - trying out the 30cm AP3+, FF4+ (still with Multi melta) redeemer version. More close support than close assault.

battlefield was the dining room floor. 4 hills, 5 towns, 3 woods. From Sally perspective hills ran from bottom left to top right with woods opposite each other in centre of deployment areas and then bottom right to top right town, wood, town, and top left to bottom left the 3 towns (though obviously not in straight lines).

Both Blitzs were in the centre, I put one objective on the far left edge near the BL table edge, the other on the half way line in the centre, while the sallie objectives went on the far left at half way and 30cm in, again half way.

Deployment
Chaos
SC in woods in centre holding blitz. Rest of army arrays to the left hand side of the board. From left to right, feral, feral, raptors, both decimators, feral. Forlorn hope guarded the retinue against terminators. Both Retinue and forlorn on overwatch.
Basic Chaos plan was to hit turn 2 with everything bar the retinue who were to keep out of harms way. The Chosen would hit from behind, hopefully cutting off the marines retreat (which sounded grand after the battle but I've no idea how this was supposed to be achieved).
Sallies
Two castles, left hand guarded by speeders, the right hand guarded by scouts (both on overwatch). From left to right castle 1 AT devs and tacticals, castle two FF devs and warhound.
My plan, hit with terminators and pick up again with thunderhawk, which means they should have recovered by turn 3 to go again. Then the core trick was to move up and soften up with the FF devs then assault in with the tacs, with the AT devs blowing away stuff impressively. All the while our heavy armour should shrug off everything!
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Salamanders vs Black legion
Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 08 Jun. 2009, 14:57 )

225 Decimator
300 Decimator and defiler
300 Feral
300 Feral
300 Feral

I think the current wisdom is that all of these heavy war engines come out of the "Allies" 1/3 allotment to prevent Black Legion from being a minor Chaos Titan Legion list.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Salamanders vs Black legion
Yeah, but Lee wanted to use the EpicUK list.
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Salamanders vs Black legion
Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 08 Jun. 2009, 15:40 )

Yeah, but Lee wanted to use the EpicUK list.

Were any lessons learned?  *laugh*
Author:  Mephiston [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Salamanders vs Black legion
Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 08 Jun. 2009, 15:40 )

Yeah, but Lee wanted to use the EpicUK list.

Well, its currently the GW official list.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Salamanders vs Black legion
yes, but we got it off the EpicUK site :)
Were any lessons learned?  *laugh*
Marines should get deathstrikes?
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Salamanders vs Black legion
Turn 1
Forgot how the strategy rating and teleports worked so rolled for it. Chaos said no teleports then the terminators appeared with one blast marker on the far left.
Init marines
Well, perfect, in went the terminators and as an aside my chaps are on very nice warmaster bases, this has the downside of making it impossible to hide behind warengines, exposing me to return fire from the next feral along. But the perfect start continued with the feral dropping under 4 MW and 2 normal hits, bm'ing its mate and the termines trying to consolidate somewhere safer while still being able to get picked up. I reasoned they would either do this, or get killed by something else which would at least disrupt the chaos advance.
Chaos
Tried to activate the bm'ed feral, with a re-roll, but to no avail, it marshalled.
Marines
Moved up the land speeders creating a position to move some infantry into.
Chaos
Activated a Decimator (determined to get those terminators) and it and its little defiler killed 2 marine stands, only the chaplains Rosarious stopping it being worse. This was bad, but on the plus side they broke and got to get out of line of sight behind a town.
Marines
As the defiler was outside the flak umbrella now the thunderbolts tried to swoop, but failed.
Chaos
Forlorn hope marched swinging far to the right.
Marines
They succeeded in drawing off the warhound who went and chased them, destroying both rhinos.
Chaos
Realised they could re-set overwatch on the retinue.
Marines
Moved scouts forward to try and set up another castle area.
Chaos
However got creamed and broken by the 3rd feral.
Marines
It in turn got broken by the AT devestators and went forward and to the right.
Chaos
The raptors bounced forward aggressively. Bounce, bounce. Into a town.
Marines
The FF devs moved up behind the speeders, bm'ing the raptors.
Chaos
The decimator marched towards the salamanders, stopping outside the speeders zoc.
Marines
Landing craft ground attacked to little effect and picked up the terminators (then later flew off the enemy table edge).
The tacticals moved into the speeders castle, bm'ing the decimator.
End phase
All chaos rallies
Terminators fail to rally (with the reroll).
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Salamanders vs Black legion
God its dull writing these things
Turn 2
Chosen teleport in, they were behind the big tactical and to the right of the FF devs. I think managing to pick up 2 bm on the big formation, 1 on the small.
Chaos win init
Chaos
Chosen BTS rush the FF devs. They fight bravely, both the redeemer, one sallie stand and a dev librarian being able to FF. But 7 3+, 5MW3+ and 2TK3+ was hard to withstand. After some supporting fire the Chosen were down a oblit and 2 chosen, while the devs were wiped out by combat resolution. The Chosen bts though breaks thanks to arriving upside down and I remember it heading for some sort of cover.
At this point my notes are ripped out of Saishas note book, no doubt to have flowers drawn on them.
I remember the decimator sustaining into the tacticals, which wasn't pretty. The tacticals and speeders ganged up on the other chosen, thoroughly shooting them MW BM clipping/speedering, sending the Demon prince and Obliterator scuttling off.
The rest of the turn was somewhat bitty, with the Chaos forces somewhat out of position to press hard. The feral and decimator/defiler moved up, sparring with the marines and causing damage, whilst the AT devs broke one decimator and the thunderbolts bm'ed a chosen to death. I think the Thunderhawk killed off the last two chosen. The raptors didn't do much.
On the right the warhound shot up the forlorn hope on its way past to the blitz, taking fire and a damage point from the retinue there. The scouts I think killed the broken ones but were reduced to one rhino by the feral going the other way.
End of the turn both chosen didn't rally, or maybe one did. I think everyone else did.

Turn 3 consisted of action in three different bits of the board. I'm not sure as to the exact sequence of events, bar the fighting in the centre happened first. I think I might have won the init as well.
The 'speeders bought it in the melee fighting warengines, whilst the tacticals did some damage to the raptors (yes the redeemer was in range, can't remember if it killed anything though), backed up by the AT devs who dispached the defiler/decimator with the speeders help.
In addition to the speeders the tacticals took a fair number of casualties, I think from the damaged decimator.
At the rear the recharged warhound was able to kill and lay enough bm's to suppress the oblit from one angle, allowing the thunderhawk and termies to scream in. They had everything going for them, but managed still to lose, dieing to a man, though killing the sc and breaking the marines in the process.
At my blitz the feral batted the rhino guarding it aside to take it.
1-0 to chaos with it very nearly being 2-0 bar some aggressive marine doubles to contest the raptors siezing an objective.
I can deduce from the turn 4 notes that the bts must of rallied this turn or last but one chosen was still broken.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Salamanders vs Black legion
Clearly enough flowers were drawn as turn 4 is still in the dolphin notebook (its got a little dolphin that moves when you tip it).

Marines win Init
The board consists of
Retinue and warhound near the chaos blitz.
A feral at the marine blitz.
Chosen (well, its just the BTS demon prince), a mauled but largely BM free tactical formation, a pristine AT dev formation, a feral, a damaged decimator and some raptors in the centre left.
Marines
Deliberately gamble and move off contesting the marine objectives to kill the winged demon prince. Doubling into Melta range seemed the best bet (1 Ap3+, 1 AP4+ and a few AP5+'s didn't seem to cut it against the RA4+) and enough transport was left to pick up the survivors and move them (including I think one of the tactical melta stands). I think the rhinos took most of the suppressions.
Retaining with the AT formation with a re-roll was enough to go grab the centre enemy objective and break the decimator that moved in on the off chance there would be another turn.
Chaos
The raptors secured my two objectives.
Marines
The Warhound moved to the blitz, doing enough to the retinue to break it again.
Chaos
Feral on my blitz went on overwatch.
Marines
Thunderbolts killed a raptor, breaking them.
Chaos
Feral then marched back to its blitz, contesting it.
Chosen were put off by the nearby tacticals, Decimator rallied, I don't think anything else failed.
Marines 1(BTS) Chaos 1 (blitz)
By rights the Chaos chaps should have won here, just a luck strafe stopped them.
Rolled for another turn, actually got it, but our time was up. We rolled for init and the BL got it.
But that was it.

VP's
1820 for the sallies
2045 for Chaos
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Salamanders vs Black legion
So overall, I had a fair bit of luck, though also had my SC last longer. The first turn went quite well though and I think the terminator attack was worth it (note if I had lost the init the ferals could simply have wandered off, leaving me with heavy flamers against WE).
The 3 big sallie formations couldn't do much beyond weather the MW barrages due to the ferals speed.
The redeemer 30cm model is hard to assess here. I think actually the current salamander stats would have been more effective, partly because things got awful close a lot and partly because one died straight off and the other I don't think flamed anything to death. I guess it probably got a shot against the raptors but the doubling redeemer would have had more firepower vs the demon prince with two guns.
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