Great report mate.
Hope the next game is a little more interesting!
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| Squats vs Marines http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=15809 |
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| Author: | Morgan Vening [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
No pictures, really not necessary. Marine List 4 Terminator Squads (3 with Chap, 1 with Supreme) 1 Battle Barge 4 Devastator + Librarian + DN*2 2 Thunderhawks Squat List (Hojyn's one) Berserkers Tunneling 2 Grand Batteries (3MM+3TG) w Thunderfire 2 Bikers w GM and 4/5 upgrades to Trikes Thunderers Overlord Squad 2 Colossus Warriors w HG + Rhinos Warriors w HG + Warlord + Leviathan Setup He places his Objectives within 40cm of my Blitz, I place mine barely over the middle of the table (hey, I don't want to sprint! Short legs and all) He records his Barge stuff. I screw up and reveal what and when (not where) my Tunnellers will appear, which I am only required to reveal what, not when. I deploy my entire army. Thunderers are on Overwatch (towards the middle of the table), as is a Grand Battery near my Blitz. Turn 1 No teleports. He wins Init by 1. He passes. I advance a Colossi, Overlords and Warriors up towards mid point. Overwatch the Batteries, move the bikers, and a Collosi near my triangle Blitz. Turn 2 No teleports. He wins Init by 1. He passes. I advance the Overlords, Colossus and Rhino'd Warriors to my T&H Objectives. The stuff near my Blitz goes on Overwatch, as does the Leviathan'd Warriors near the Thunderers (who fail, and then recover all BM's in Rally). Turn 3 He teleports all 4 Terminator Squads within range of the Leviathan'd Warriors. Thunderers are within 5cm. He wins Init by 1. Supreme Commander says ENGAGE! All 4 charge the intermingled Leviathan'd Warriors + Thunderers. I overwatch with the Thunderers, a Biker Squad, a Grand Battery and the Rhino'd Warriors. I kill 2 Terminators. Yay me! Combat is upon us. He's in contact with all the Thunderers, the Leviathan, the HearthGuard and 4 of the Warriors. I have supporting fire from the Bike Squad, the forward Colossus and half the Rhino'd Warriors. 14 Normals and 18 Macros. 9 of each. I make saves like a champ. He kills 5 Thunderers and 4 Warriors. My responding fire (including Supporting) and he loses 7 Terminators, including 2 Chaplains. Final Result = +2 for Casualties, +1 for Inspiring, for him. +2 for Blast Markers, +1 for Outnumbering for me. It's down to the roll. He rolls a 4 and a 6. I roll a 4 and a 6! TIE! YAY! Due to the losses effects on range, my supporting fire loses the Biker Squad with it's Macro shots, but I'm able to get my Warlord into the fray. He gets 4 normal hits and 5 Macros. I lose a Thunderer and two of the last 3 Warriors and the Warlord. He takes 6 normal hits, and 2 Macro. Fails 4 normals, then fails the 2 Macro. He has a Chaplain left. That's it. YAY! I win combat by like 17, and hack down the Chaplain. We resolve the aftermath, and I point out that I've lost 7 men from the Leviathan squad. 7 Blast Members. 4DC + 1 Warrior + 2 HearthGuard. He's broken them at least. 6.11.1.1Para1. No he doesn't! I giggle like a moron. Obviously frustrated he retains and calls in the Battle Barge. "Can't keep having this luck!". Roll.. bounce...bounce... 1! Loud cry of a word that rhymes with "Luck!", and declare my Tunnellers are appearing. Roll a 3, and claim his Blitz. Game ends, 5 to 0. Two turns of just me moving, one engagement, and one 1, and the game's over, me holding all objectives and no enemy on the table. To clarify though, in case we did it wrong, if the Thunderhawks are Planetfalling, they can only do it if the SpaceShip arrives, correct? If it's delayed, can they still drop, or no? Morgan Vening - Stupidly lucky today, just plain stupid yesterday. |
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| Author: | Onyx [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
| Great report mate. Hope the next game is a little more interesting! |
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| Author: | Chroma [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
Quote: (Morgan Vening @ 08 Jun. 2009, 07:31 ) Game ends, 5 to 0. Two turns of just me moving, one engagement, and one 1, and the game's over, me holding all objectives and no enemy on the table. , correct? If it's delayed, can they still drop, or no? Morgan Vening - Stupidly lucky today, just plain stupid yesterday. A "third turn strike" army can be devastating... or can have things go totally pear-shaped... hilarious report, MV! To clarify though, in case we did it wrong, if the Thunderhawks are Planetfalling, they can only do it if the SpaceShip arrives If the T-Hawks are assigned as "planetfalling", then they can only be deployed via the spacecraft... if it's not there, then no T-Hawks. |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
Now them's my kind of dice  As a thought, would the results have been different if he had used the Battle-barge first (and had his SC re-roll available) before the climactic assault? Also, what was the idea behind the empty THawks planetfalling? Do you still play that they can claim objectives on the turn that they arrive? |
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| Author: | Chroma [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
Quote: (Ginger @ 08 Jun. 2009, 12:59 ) Also, what was the idea behind the empty THawks planetfalling? Do you still play that they can claim objectives on the turn that they arrive? Probably to pick up the Terminators for redeployment or something, though per-planning that placement might be a bit tricky. |
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| Author: | Morgan Vening [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
Quote: (Ginger @ 08 Jun. 2009, 12:59 ) Now them's my kind of dice As a thought, would the results have been different if he had used the Battle-barge first (and had his SC re-roll available) before the climactic assault? Also, what was the idea behind the empty THawks planetfalling? Do you still play that they can claim objectives on the turn that they arrive? Actually, he had two of the Devs deploying via the THawks. That allowed him three deployment zones, which he hoped would allow him to contest/control enough objectives to go to Turn 4. As for doing it in the reverse order, that could have made a large difference (though it would have made the Termies act on 3+, which isn't great, and could have allowed me to redeploy outside charge range). As would not retaining. Nothing I could do to affect things (Units on Overwatch would have stayed, units that had used OW couldn't act, and the units without OW wouldn't have been in a position to do anything to his Planetfallzones). I think he was just totally psyched out by having 1600pts of Terminators dying taking out only 325pts of Squats. Morgan Vening |
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| Author: | Morgan Vening [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
Quote: (Chroma @ 08 Jun. 2009, 12:40 ) To clarify though, in case we did it wrong, if the Thunderhawks are Planetfalling, they can only do it if the SpaceShip arrives If the T-Hawks are assigned as "planetfalling", then they can only be deployed via the spacecraft... if it's not there, then no T-Hawks. Cool, so he was legitimately screwed. But are they deployed simultaneously? Or as separate activations? IE, is it required/permitted to go - Activate Strike Cruiser. Orbital. Drop Pods. - Retain if wished, activate one of the Drop Podded. - Activate Thunderhawk Planetfall. - Retain if wished, activate the Thunderhawked. Or are you required to go - Activate Strike Cruiser. Orbital. Drop Pods. Thunderhawks. - Retain if wished, activate on of the Planetfalled. Morgan Vening |
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| Author: | Chroma [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
Quote: (Morgan Vening @ 08 Jun. 2009, 14:21 ) Or are you required to go - Activate Strike Cruiser. Orbital. Drop Pods. Thunderhawks. - Retain if wished, activate on of the Planetfalled. Anything planetfalling from a Spacecraft is deployed during the Spacecraft's activation. |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
To expand on Chroma's reply, it is the Spaceship that activates. Planetfalling results in getting lots of troops onto the table simultaneously. After the dust settles, the player may retain with another formation including one that has just landed. Note the transports (and contents) that have landed by planetfall have not yet activated, so Transports can be used to shoot and 'prep' a target |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
Quote: (Morgan Vening @ 08 Jun. 2009, 07:31 ) Turn 1 No teleports. He wins Turn 3 He teleports all 4 Terminator Squads within range of the Leviathan'd Warriors. Thunderers are within 5cm. He wins Init by 1. Supreme Commander says ENGAGE! All 4 charge the intermingled Leviathan'd Warriors + Thunderers. The commander rule only allows 3 formations to do a combined assault, that includes the SC's formation and 2 others . |
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| Author: | Morgan Vening [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
Quote: (dptdexys @ 08 Jun. 2009, 17:20 ) The commander rule only allows 3 formations to do a combined assault, that includes the SC's formation and 2 others . Commanders can order up to three formations to follow them when they make an assault, as long as all the formations have at least one unit within 5cm of a unit from the commander’s formation. As the Commander is part of a formation and not an independent model, I read it differently. To me, it reads as "His Squad + Three", not "Three, including his Squad". I can see how you arrived at your interpretation, but without a clarifying statement, the "all the formations have at least one unit within 5cm of the commander's formation" is confusing if the commander's formation is counted in that initial "up to three". Morgan Vening |
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| Author: | Jeridian [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
Everyone's too polite to say it, but that Marine list was full of fail. True, he was very unlucky to not win that overwhelming assault, but even if he had, so what? He's expended most of his army, and given the opponent free reign of the board for 2 turns to kill one formation. It's what I like about Epic- the Marine plan in theory sounds brutal, hold all your power until turn 3, then smash everything down and win. It's sufficient for 40k. But in Epic, there's plenty your opponent can do to counter and prepare for it. I'd recommend playing the first two turns, rather than avoiding them. |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
Quote: (Morgan Vening @ 08 Jun. 2009, 21:47 ) Quote: (dptdexys @ 08 Jun. 2009, 17:20 ) The commander rule only allows 3 formations to do a combined assault, that includes the SC's formation and 2 others . Commanders can order up to three formations to follow them when they make an assault, as long as all the formations have at least one unit within 5cm of a unit from the commander’s formation. As the Commander is part of a formation and not an independent model, I read it differently. To me, it reads as "His Squad + Three", not "Three, including his Squad". I can see how you arrived at your interpretation, but without a clarifying statement, the "all the formations have at least one unit within 5cm of the commander's formation" is confusing if the commander's formation is counted in that initial "up to three". Morgan Vening You have to read the rest of the commander rule, where it states, If the test is passed all three formations may take an engage action. Treat the three formations as if they were a single formation for rules purposes for the duration of the assault. You can check the FAQ's too, page 10, first question. The answer given states the Commander's formation and the other 2 may do a combined assault. |
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| Author: | Morgan Vening [ Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
Quote: (Jeridian @ 08 Jun. 2009, 22:32 ) Everyone's too polite to say it, but that Marine list was full of fail. True, he was very unlucky to not win that overwhelming assault, but even if he had, so what? He's expended most of his army, and given the opponent free reign of the board for 2 turns to kill one formation. It's what I like about Epic- the Marine plan in theory sounds brutal, hold all your power until turn 3, then smash everything down and win. It's sufficient for 40k. But in Epic, there's plenty your opponent can do to counter and prepare for it. I'd recommend playing the first two turns, rather than avoiding them. It probably was a FAIL list. I used a Drop Pod army the other day, and came down on Turn 2, but had a Warlord on table, and teleporting Terminators and a THawk air assault on Turn 1, and a second squad of Termies teleport in on Turn 3 (Objective sniping). These were our first two forays into Drop Pod armies, and so I'm sure someone was going to make a list that was sub-optimal. My list above was made for exactly the reasons you mentioned. My opponent probably thought he could pull it off. Didn't happen. But I can't really blame him for trying something new. @dptdexys- Cool. I'll inform the rest of our playgroup. RTFM is important. RTFMC is more important. Morgan Vening |
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| Author: | Jeridian [ Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Squats vs Marines |
But I can't really blame him for trying something new. Aye, make no apologies, the wargaming method of 'trial and error' is a dying breed sadly (combination of internet access and model expense), but it allows a player to truly see how everything works and perhaps find some combo's or tactics never considered before. The Battle Barge is a red herring though, as it's recommended an army participate in turn 2. Drop Podding and Termie teleporting turn 2, with Thunderhawks 'prepping' the intended assault target could work, though as with all things Marines is a very delicate tight-rope walk. My current Marine list includes a Strike Cruiser just for such a purpose, if and when it's viable. |
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