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Tau vs. LatD
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=13774		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Irondeath [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
Without TV and a proper computer, I might as well while another evening away with a dry-run, before the annual new-wine festival kicks off tomorrow evening featuring cheap booze, speeches by the town mayor and, more importantly, the local wine princess, to be followed up by folksy live music featuring lots of brass instruments. We are all looking forward to this one here...
:p


3000 Pts Tau: (almost same list)

Rules:
Deflector at fixed 5+
Support Craft APU
Moray main weapons halved, stays at 325 for this test
(I thought about trying 45cm range at full pwoer, but this would call for planetfalling them, which isn´t a good idea in a dry-run when the other side knows the dropzones)

200 FW Cadre
200 FW Cadre
200 FW Cadre

625 2xScorpfish, 1xSC upgrade, NWDs
425 4xStingrays, Skyray, 2xStingrays, NWDs
175 6xPathfinder Tetras
175 6xPathfinder Tetras
175 6xPathfinder Tetras
175 6xPathfinder Tetras

325 Moray (TK)
325 Moray (Ion, would like to check it out)

Tactics: Avoid getting bunched up, the enemy has little mobility and needs to strike at a centre of gravity, namely the Blitz. Keep supporting arms away from that but in range to punish any attempts.

Maybe try to push 2 or 3 Morays into the enemy rear, going for arty and Blitz.


3000 Points LatD (Traitor-PDF themed, reliant on human wave tactics and some heavy gear)

200 Coven (led by Aspiring Champ)
250 Coven + 1 Hydra (led by Aspiring Champ)
250 Coven + 1 Hydra (led by Aspiring Champ)
250 Coven + 1 Hydra (led by Aspiring Champ)
450 Coven + Daemon Prince (winged), 4x Fire Support, 2x HydraBTS

400 Traitor Armoured Coy
400 Traitor Armoured Coy
325 Traitor Artillery Bty
325 Traitor Artillery Bty
150 Traitor Rough Riders Sqd

Tactics: Garrison Coven forward (but in cover) regardless of exposure to enemy fire, getting into contact with the enemy ASAP is the priority. Support units should be free to shoot stuff up while the Inf does the dying.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
You have quite a different design philosophy to gm's than I it seems. I like max activations so I get lots of bm's, can wait out the enemy getting them to move forward so I can sustain gm's onto them and so on.

On the plus side a forward garrisoned infantry company should just die under a tetra/skorp co-ord combo. Co-ord with the Tetra, double/advance with it up to the target then sustain as part of the same activation with the skorps (thats 12 4+ ignore cover missiles with that big formation of yours).

Oh and hold the stingrays out of harms way - when you can do an advance/pop up against a marked infantry unit at 30cm you should just munch it up with all your ignore cover.

As a side issue I find GM hordes work best with the 1000 point support also going along with it. For me Morays would get support from things like Hammerheads for an all skimmer/nearly all skimmer army.

Still at least the first two Tau activations are simple - Moray the arty and moray the arty! :)
Author:  dptdexys [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
Quote: (Irondeath @ 15 Oct. 2008, 15:04 )

200 FW Cadre
200 FW Cadre
200 FW Cadre

600 2xScorpfish, 1xSC upgrade
425 4xStingrays, Skyray, 2xStingrays, NWDs
175 6xPathfinder Tetras
175 6xPathfinder Tetras
175 6xPathfinder Tetras
175 6xPathfinder Tetras

650 2xMorays (TK)
325 Moray (Ion, would like to check it out)

Tactics: Avoid getting bunched up, the enemy has little mobility and needs to strike at a centre of gravity, namely the Blitz. Keep supporting arms away from that but in range to punish any attempts.

Maybe try to push 2 or 3 Morays into the enemy rear, going for arty and Blitz.


3000 Points LatD (Traitor-PDF themed, reliant on human wave tactics and some heavy gear)

200 Coven (led by Aspiring Champ)
250 Coven + 1 Hydra (led by Aspiring Champ)
250 Coven + 1 Hydra (led by Aspiring Champ)
250 Coven + 1 Hydra (led by Aspiring Champ)
450 Coven + Daemon Prince (winged), 4x Fire Support, 2x HydraBTS

400 Traitor Armoured Coy
400 Traitor Armoured Coy
325 Traitor Artillery Bty
325 Traitor Artillery Bty
100 Traitor Sentinel Sqd

Tactics: Garrison Coven forward (but in cover) regardless of exposure to enemy fire, getting into contact with the enemy ASAP is the priority. Support units should be free to shoot stuff up while the Inf does the dying.

I think you've got 3300 points on the Tau list and 2950 on the LatD list(an extra hydra in a coven).
Author:  Irondeath [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
A lot will depend on Ini rolls. If the LatD get the jump on the Tau, all bets are off. With 60+ Inf to kill, the Tau better start shooting them early. LatD have to break through the P-T screen, brave the Firewarriors and get those tanks into position. I predict that bunching formations up maximally will be quite helpful again.

The Moray have to best both the Basilisks and the Russes, it could well happen that they take too much fire and are either driven off or destroyed, in any case this is a more challenging environment than deflecting a few Land Raider shots...
Author:  Irondeath [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
Quote: (dptdexys @ 15 Oct. 2008, 16:37 )

I think you've got 3300 points on the Tau list and 2950 on the LatD list(an extra hydra in a coven).

Correct on both counts. I had a spreadsheet precisely to avoid this type of mess-up on the other machine...
:vo

Will edit...
Author:  dptdexys [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 15 Oct. 2008, 15:30 )

Still at least the first two Tau activations are simple - Moray the arty and moray the arty! :)

Isn't the play testing version of  APU supposed to treat terrain as a normal skimmer would. Therfore the opponent should be capable of using terrain to severly limit the chance of auto targetting priorety targets.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
Oh, thats what APU means. I did wonder :) In which case his army needs a deep strike formation otherwise an army with deathstrikes could blow away his bts first activation.
Author:  Irondeath [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
The Scorpfishes? One has a Deflector, and LatD don´t do Deathstrikes either.

As I once wrote in the "beefs, discussion"-thread, measuring up anything against IG isn´t exactly fair as IG has the tools to counter pretty much anything, TK, massive AT, Ignore Cover, lots of indirect fire, dirt-cheap scout screens, decent garrisons, multi-role fighters etc.

The point that an army (any army) benefits from having a deep-strike element though is valid. The Morays will have to do here, if cover can really protect the arty that´s good news IMO
Author:  Irondeath [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
With batteries recharged, a picture says more than a thousand words..



Setup: LatD aggressively garrison, FW 1+3 do likewise and go on OW, P-T4 garrisons as well.

Arty goes into hiding, the Morays will be unable to strike Arty 1 at all in T1, and will have to sail into the heart of the LatD horde to get a shot off at Arty2.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
Quote: (Irondeath @ 15 Oct. 2008, 17:23 )

As I once wrote in the "beefs, discussion"-thread, measuring up anything against IG *snip*.

The point that an army (any army) benefits from having a deep-strike element though is valid. The Morays will have to do here, if cover can really protect the arty that´s good news IMO

Mine is a meta game tourny mindset. So every army is designed to counter common parts of all the others. For me the Tau currently has very heavy air power, orbital drops, teleporters - poor for AT but really are there for... - , Markerlights and GM's. Oh and a variant on that which is forward garrisoned tetra and piranha who do a co-ord fire mission with one doubling and the other sustaining.

Quote: (Irondeath @ 15 Oct. 2008, 19:15 )

Setup: LatD aggressively garrison, FW 1+3 do likewise and go on OW, P-T4 garrisons as well.

On the plus side the short range of Tau infantry guns won't be an issue :)
Author:  Irondeath [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
Turn 1

Ini: LatD

Arty1 sustains on Stingrays, kill 1
Tanks2 double vs Rail-Moray, cause 2 damage, breking it.

Tau retailiate by pulling 2 Coord Fires:
First, PT2 advances on the SC Coven, kill1, PT3 does likewise and kill 4 in a devastating torrent of Pulsefire, then the Stingrays join in, destroy a Hydra and 5 more Cultists, Coven breaks and flees to the nearby rubble.

Looking to turn a flank, PT1 doubles to fire on Coven1, killing 1 despite the rubble, Ion-Moray doubles up as well but fails to do any damage.

Looking to stall on the right ruins-flank, Tanks2 double to fire on the Ion-Moray, causing 4 hits which are 3x deflected and 1x saved.

Arty then does some prep fire on FW3 in the ruins, killing 2.

Not wanting to wait for the Chaotics to crash into the Firewarriors, TP4 Coords with the Scorps to drive off Coven3, the one in the open behind the buildings. The PT4 kills 1, having suffered 1 down to Overwatch form Coven2 before,, while a storm of submunitions kills hordes of Cultists, breaking the formation which retreats to the ruins behind Coven4

In retaliation, Coven2 advances on PT4, killing 3 and breaking them, courtesy of the Hydra which did all the effective shooting.

FW2 try to reach the rubbled hill in front of them, put only partially manage to do so when they hold (Reroll was used before, didn´t record that one)

Tau are done.

Coven 4 opens up on the FW3 in the ruins ahead of them, killing 2 and driving them back to the rubbly hill.

Coven 1 advance on PT1 (had to in order to regain coherency), kill 3 which breaks these.

RRiders charge headlong into PT2, which had triggered Overwatch earlier and lost a unit, everyone rolls it FF6+ and the PT´s lose to bad luck and BM, with 3 being destroyed.


Pic before the End Phase

BL fail to rally the broken Coven (SC and 3) but reduce BM on Coven 1 to 0.

Tau luck out and rally all but the TK-Moray, rolling lots of 5´s.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
Quote: (Irondeath @ 15 Oct. 2008, 21:15 )

Tanks2 double vs Rail-Moray, cause 2 damage, breking it.

Your poor Moray even with 3 5+ saves seem to have no luck :)
Author:  Irondeath [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
Turn 2

Ini: LatD! (which would have added 2D3 daemons if it had any pacts by now)

Identifying the Scorpfishes both as a major threat and as an easy target, Tanks2 double forward into Lascannon range and shower the Scorpfishes with fire ... for a single point of damage!

Unwilling to let them have their way with the numerous approaching Cultists, Arty1 fires across the board, centering on the closer, unshileded Scorpfish which suffers 2 points of damage ... an explodes in a fountain of detonationg warheads!

Still unable to target the Arty, which has now fired anyway, the Ion-Moray on the left flank targets the Tanks, BMing them.

PT3 sustain on the RRiders, killing 2 and breaking them before they can make a run at the Tau rear.

After much encouragement by the SC which is still busy rallying his entourage, Arty2 sustains on the Stingrays, wrecking 2.

Coven3, not liking to be markerlit, open up on PT3, destroying 3 and driving them off.

PT2 advance on the broken RRiders in a stalling move, BM-killing 1.

Tanks1 are forced to Hold, shoot the Ion-moray with 4 Battlecannons, which strike true and heavily damage the Support Craft (-2DC, Crit), which then moves to get LOF on the arty, at long last...

PT1 now double in a move that they should have made much earlier, Scout-ZoCing the broken SC-Coven, the Arty and the Tanks, BMing the arty in the move.

Coven2 on the left flank now advances into the buildings at the T&H, kill a Firewarrior from FW2.

FW3 Marshall, clear all BM and shift their position on the rubbly hill slightly, to make room for FW2.

Coven4 doubles on PT4, occupying the ruins near the 2nd T&H, with the Hydra shooting up a PT, breaking the formation and ending the Tau´s last opportunity to markerlight this turn.

In response, the remaining Stingrays Marshall.

FW2 now try to double onto the rubbly hill, Hold instead and shuffle forward slowly.

Endphase:

LatD rally Arty1, RRiders
Tau rally Tail Moray and PTs 1 and 2.

This pretty much ends all hopes of victory. The Tau lack the firepower and positions to check the Arty and Tanks, no longer have sufficient Submonitions to clear the Cultists from the T&Hs and have lost most of the TPs.

While the Cultists are unable to get the broken 2 Coven back into the fight, the 3 others are intact and in position, and all the heavy equipment is still around.

Tau cede.
Author:  Irondeath [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
Thoughts:

Well, those Morays really saved poorly here, and this as well as losing Ini twice defeated the Tau.

APU, together with the Morays lowish speed kept Arty 1 safe, while the 2nd Basilisk formation was shielded by endless hordes of Cultists.

While I think APU solves my main Support Craft grief (see-all just cannot stand, it is utterly aggravating to play against), those halved weapons may be a little too much, at least for 325 points.

I used Coord Fire to good effect in T1, but in T2 things pretty much fell apart, the Tau were unable to screen the Scorpfishes and unable to get at the arty, which made for a quick end as the LatD struck where it hurt and could do so increasingly at their leisure.

TRC has made some good points on army composition, I´m still learning on handling Tau here.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau vs. LatD
Quote: (Irondeath @ 15 Oct. 2008, 22:57 )

While I think APU solves my main Support Craft grief (see-all just cannot stand, it is utterly aggravating to play against), those halved weapons may be a little too much, at least for 325 points.

When I proposed a weapons drop for the Morays, I suggested:

TK Moray goes down to 1 shot, but make it a MW2+ TK(d3) shot.
Other Moray goes down to 4x shots. 3x shots is too low IMHO.

Points should be about 300/325 with those stats + APU.
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