Tactical Command
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two 'nid games over the weekend
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=13553		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Dave [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  two 'nid games over the weekend
I got two games in over the weekend with Jaldon's changes to 9.0 against BL and the latest Tech Guard.  I have some pictures of the first game, but not many, I can post if anyone likes. To get two games in I didn't take many, or any notes for that matter.

First turn against BL my list looked like this:

6 Assault Swarms
1 Attack Swarm
9 Hormagaunt Clusters
9 Termegant Clusters
1 Carnifex Cluster
1 Zoanthrope Cluster
2 Malfactor Clusters
2 Genestealer (6)

Black Legion roughly had:

Banelord
2 Forlorn Hope with rhinos
Retinue with Rhinos and Khorne
Retinue with Havocs
Raptors
Choson with Obliterators

First turn saw me marching across the board with Black Legion preparing for engagements.  Second turn I only managed to engage his Forlorn Hope Formations, unfortunately for me they went to two-three rounds each and I ended up loosing and leaving one marine stand each while my swarms ran away broken. Third turn though I rolled through the bigger retinues (go figure).  We called it at the end of the third as everything but the banelord and chosen were left with 1-2 units each.
Author:  Dave [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  two 'nid games over the weekend
Second game against the tech guard I mixed up my list:

4 Assault Swarms
1 Attack Swarm
1 Harassment Swarm
1 Gargoyle Flock
6 Hormagaunt Clusters
6 Termegant Clusters
3 Exocrine Clusters
3 Dactylis Clusters
2 Genestealer (6, one with broodlord)

Tech Guard roughly had:
Ordanatus Mars
Bombards
Skitarii
Russes (BTS)
Praetorians
Sentinels
Marauders
Warhounds

Turn one saw my garrisoned Genestealers broken before they could activate and killed by the end of the turn and 4 out of my 7 remaining activations failed on rolls of 1... That ham strung me for the rest of the game.  I advanced what I could but I was just shot to pieces.

The Warhounds made most of their saves(despite how much fire power I threw at them) the Ordantus just sat there and blew stuff up and the Leman Russ were untouched at the end of the game. I did manage to take out the Sentinels though and half the Pratorians.  I also gave DS heart palpatations when my lone surviving Broodlord engaged the Skitarii, made both his invulnerable saves and brought it down to an even result roll.  Unfortunately he lost by 2 and was promptly hacked down. :p
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  two 'nid games over the weekend
Dave's second game was against me. It was close fought, decided by points. It wasn't our usual blood bath. Dave only managed to eliminate one Sentinel formation, one Hellhound and about four Praetorians. Also, I had no broken formations. Dave had the misfortune of failing four activations during Turn 1.

For the record I fielded:
Skitarii Co. with upgrade of 3 Hellhounds and a Tech Lord
Bombard detachment
Ordinatus Mars
2 Warhounds each armed with Turbolaser Destructor and Vulcan Megabolter
Leman Russ Co.
Sentinel detachment
Praetorian detachment
2 Marauders
Author:  Dave [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  two 'nid games over the weekend
Questions:

I had a number of failed initiative rolls in the second game as well as one vital one in the first. 2+ initiative is tough with no SC :p. Any thoughts on allowing a 0-1 SC option for the Tyrant at +100 points if there's no Dominatrix?

I'm not sure if this is covered in the 9.0 rules, but what happens when a synapse swarm looses all its synapse creatures before it activates but is not broken. Does it still get to activate?

Also what happens when a synapse swarm looses all its synapse creatures in an assault, does it get to withdraw if it looses and consolidate if it wins?

I'd like to be able to activate in the first example, and withdraw or consolidate in the second.  It give you a chance to save the brood creatures by getting them in synapse range off another group.
Author:  Dave [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  two 'nid games over the weekend
Thoughts on changes.

I like the spawning changes, it's simple, quick and random. Spawn values still might need some tweaking (why spawn a Trygon when you can bring back a Heirdule).

I've come to the conclusion that the Malefactor change is fine by me. It give the same average number of hits but getting 3 hits now is impossible.

Still thinking on the Bio-cannon change.  Exocrine took a big hit by this.

Stat wise, the only other things I would like to see or RA fexes and Tyrgons with Scything Talons instead of Vicious claws. Indendent Teleporting (burrowing) Tyrgons would be fun too. :))
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  two 'nid games over the weekend
Quote: (Dave @ 17 Sep. 2008, 12:35 )

I like the spawning changes, it's simple, quick and random.

I agree. Spawning was so much faster than the "one dice roll for everyone" method.
Author:  Ginger [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  two 'nid games over the weekend
Quote: (Dave @ 17 Sep. 2008, 17:26 )

Questions:

I had a number of failed initiative rolls in the second game as well as one vital one in the first. 2+ initiative is tough with no SC :p. Any thoughts on allowing a 0-1 SC option for the Tyrant at +100 points if there's no Dominatrix?

I'm not sure if this is covered in the 9.0 rules, but what happens when a synapse swarm looses all its synapse creatures before it activates but is not broken. Does it still get to activate?

Also what happens when a synapse swarm looses all its synapse creatures in an assault, does it get to withdraw if it looses and consolidate if it wins?

I'd like to be able to activate in the first example, and withdraw or consolidate in the second.  It give you a chance to save the brood creatures by getting them in synapse range off another group.

If the swarm loses its synapse creatures, I believe you may attempt to save the swarm as you suggest. There are three parts to this:-
a) There is nothing preventing it activating as normal.
b) The swarm must stay "in control" (15cms from a synapse) during the activation except during an assault (if "out of control" the portion with the least numbers in it is removed at the end of each move).
c) All brood creatures 'out of control' in the End-phase get removed.

So, my belief is that the swarm can move losing some creatures (and possibly shoot); or it can assault in its entirety. In doing this, the brood creatures may attempt to get under the control of another synapse. Note, I would like this clarified, but it seems sensible that the entire swarm could march into the control of a nearby synapse not losing any creatures (the alternative and somewhat "gamey" approach would be to leave a single creature 'out of formation' to satisfy the requirements of the rule).

Regarding losing the synapses during the assault, the swarm may Withdraw or consolidate as appropriate (and so may attempt to get into the control of other synapses).

However, you should note that potentially this could cause a problem where a creature moves to an unactivated swarm which then moves - so getting to move twice. Here we need an FAQ to stipulate that, if the new swarm is to control the other creatures, it may not subsequently activate (so just like embarking onto a WE in 3.1.3).
Author:  Dave [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  two 'nid games over the weekend
I'm in agreement with Ginger here Hena until Jaldon says otherwise.

Ginger, on your point about moving to an unactivated swarm that activates at a later time, I don't think it needs to be worried about.  Swarms aren't reorganized until the end phase.
Author:  Ginger [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  two 'nid games over the weekend
Quote: (Hena @ 17 Sep. 2008, 19:31 )

The control range is always measured from the synapse creatures they were assigned to at the end of last turn. If they are killed then the restriction doesn't exists (the assault being only exception to this, it represents the brood critters just flowing out to try to eat the nearby meat things). It was debated and we ended up with a conclusion that it would be too harsh to remove the formation if they moved after losing synapses.

Hena (and Dave), it sounds as though we are pretty much saying the same thing. Evidently you can activate the swarm, the only issue being the timing of the removal of brood creatures that are "out of control" of their own synapse. There are two points that this happens a) After each move and b) In the End phase after spawning. This latter point is important because it allows critters from one swarm to become attached to another. The presence (or absence) of synapse creatures is not material to this process except that at the end of the process, 'out-of-control' critters are removed.

So testing for being 'in control' after movement becomes the only real issue. If it was felt to be too harsh to remove the entire 'leaderless' formation on the spot (and I agree with this), then essentially that rule is only really applies where the synapse creatures are present. Where the synapse creatures are dead, "control" ceases to have any meaning and the mob of brood creatures actually becomes a physical manifestation of the 'fluff' (which assumes there are a lot of critters roaming about that are not actually represented because it would require too many models etc). The only thing to note here is that while "control" no longer applies, the rules on formation coherency prevent the swarm from splitting up and moving in different directions.

So in summary, the 'leaderless' swarm remains on the table and behave like any other formation until after spawning and re-assignment in the End-phase, when any 'leaderless' bugs are removed. If they have come under the control of another synapse creature at this point (either because they have moved to it, or because it has moved to them) the 'leaderless' bugs will remain on the table as part of that swarm.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  two 'nid games over the weekend
Any thoughts on the tech-guard?
Author:  Dave [ Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  two 'nid games over the weekend
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 17 Sep. 2008, 18:38 )

Any thoughts on the tech-guard?

I had a tough time dealing with them but I think a lot of that is due to my 4 failed activations in the first and my lack of cover on one half of the board. But since you asked...

The Praetorians are brutal to the point where I'm unwilling to assault them. I also think they are too cheap.  250 points for Fearless Ogryn's in their own formation with an Invulnerable and an autocannon? I think they could go up to 30/35 points each.

I also brought this up on DSs proxy thread.  Currently you can arm a minoris with a Chainfist.  :laugh: Perhaps specifying that the Battle Titan weapon needs to have a ranged attack would be good? Also, when you add a weapon to the minoris you have to pay the additional cost, correct?  I think that should be noted somewhere.
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