Tactical Command :: View topic - BL "Daemons" Vs Orks

Quote: (dptdexys @ 06 Sep. 2008, 10:40 )

Chosen #2 retained to assault the Gunz mob (which was on overwatch) - - - and was cut down before reaching their target despite being in cover, losing the Daemon Prince and a chosen. So they retreated south to be within 15 cms of the broken Kult.

Quote: (alansa @ 06 Sep. 2008, 12:46 )

If I recall, the chosen where already in cover before they attempted their assault. There was a large ruined city block onto one edge of which gunz where camped and the chosen teleporting deeper into the city 15cm or so from the gunz.

Chosen #2 can move between 16-30cm in order for it to engage and FF the KoS in turn 2 could it not?

PG: commentary and discussion will follow in due course I'm sure...

Quote: (dptdexys @ 06 Sep. 2008, 13:03 )

The second part of Gavins comment stated that the chosen moved within 15cm of the Kult whilst broken not moved to within 16-30cm so they could engage later.

Quote: (dptdexys @ 06 Sep. 2008, 10:40 )

Author:	Ginger [ Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
Here, I wanted to carry on testing the power of Daemons and Princes. As before, I presented Alansa with my list and having seen it, he decided the only changes he needed to make were to change all his Supa-zzaps to Supa-gunz. Using all the latest BL changes Black Legion 565 Chosen #1 "Khorne" (6) with pact, Champ, Icon Bearer, Daemon Prince 400 Chosen #2 "Khorne" (5) with Pact, Daemon Prince 475 Retinue #1 "Tzeentch" with Pact, Champ, Icon bearer, Obliterator 390 Retinue #2 "Tzeentch" with Pact, Rhinos, "Flappy" Daemon Prince 300 Bikes 300 Feral 240 Raptors (6) 220 Lesser Daemons (11) 100 Greater Daemon (1) === 2990 ORKS 500 'Uge Kult of Speed (8 Bikes, 8 Buggies, 8 Skorchas) (BTS) 475 Stompa Mob (Supa-Stompa, 3 stompas) 450 'Uge Blitz brigade#1 (9 Gunw's 2x Supa-gunz, 3 Flakw's) 350 'Uge Blitz Brigade#2 (9 Gunwagonz, 3 Flakwagonz) 350 Big warband#1 (Warlord, 3 nobs, 12 boyz, 4 grots) 250 Warband#2 (2 nobz, 8 boyz, 4 grots) 325 Big Gunz mob (10 big gunz with 2x Supa-gunz) 150 Fighter-bombers 150 Stormboyz (6) ==== 3000 Terrain and objectives A little more themed this time (courtesy of Alansa), the centre of the battlefield Ã‚Â was filled by a series of built up areas that stretched diagonally across the table nestling in between some small hills on the eastern side and a large ridge on the western side. As before, the BL Blitz was put 2' from the Western edge, south of a built up area. Alansa decided to mirror this by placing the ORK Blitz 2' from his Eastern edge, north of the big ridge. The BL T&H objectives were placed 30 cms south of the Ork Blitz at the foot of the ridge and 30 cms West of that position, while the Ork T&H were placed about 15 cms from the centerline 1' from the Western table edge and 2' from the Eastern edge on top of the ridge. Garrisons and setup BL Retinue #1 garrisoned the T&H on the ridge, while the Ork Gunz mob set up in the built-up area next to the two warbands in a line 50 cms south of their Blitz, confronting the Retinue. BL placed the Bikes and Raptors either side of the Feral and Retinue#2, due south of the garrisoned Retinue on the big ridge. The Orks setup their Blitz brigades East of their Blitz, the Stompa mob West of the blitz behind a screen of stormboyz, with the Kult of Speed further west, due North of the BL blitz in a slightly isolated position.

Author:	Irondeath [ Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
Hey, great, I thought youÃ‚Â´d keep us waiting all day again Do I see two DPs aligned to Khorne, however?

Author:	Ginger [ Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
They were twins and so were both princes in their own right - and proud of it! Ok, so it was a slight oversight - more on this below.

Author:	Ginger [ Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
Turn #1 Teleports:- - Chosen #1 arrive with 2BM due West of the Kult - Chosen #2 arrive in the built-up area 20cms south of the Kult, just west of the big Gunz mob Initiative :- BL Chosen #1 throw 4D3 and get '8', but to test the power of daemons, draw 6x bloodletters and assault the western edge of the Kult of speed. Alansa has set this up with 8x Skorchas surrounded by truks and buggies, but even so the result was spectacular, 5 assorted vehicles running South as fast as they could, while Chosen #1 lost 2x Daemons and a Chosen. Chosen #2 retained to assault the Gunz mob (which was on overwatch) - - - and was cut down before reaching their target despite being in cover, losing the Daemon Prince and a chosen. So they retreated south to be within 16 cms of the broken Kult. The Orks got a bit peeved and advanced Blitz brigade #1 up the Eastern side of the ridge where they took aim at the garrisoned Retinue #1. Shot at from this direction, the retinue lost the Obliterator, a unit and the Chaos Champion (simultaneously foiling the plan to summon the GD for a Tzeentch assault on the nearby mobs and depriving the BL of their only AA)! (Big Blunder #1 - A little while later I realised that I had not summoned daemons first, which would have increased the formation sufficiently to have prevented it from breaking, and thus probably they would have killed the Gunz mob) The BL Feral doubled forwards to to the West of Retinue #1 and shot the garrisoned Mob#2, clearing away 5-6 orks. In return the Ork airforce struck at Retinue #2 killing a Rhino and leaving it on foot! The BL Raptors marched 'courageously' into the BuA by the victorious Gunz mob (30 cms west of the Feral) who were singing suitably bloodthirsty ditties. Mob#1 thought long and hard about assaulting the Raptors with the support of the Gunz mob, but then realised that this would have caused the Raptors to countercharge into the Gunz mob, so decided to shoot the Feral instead, stripping the shields and causing a single hit. The BL bikes doubled forwards into the gap between the Feral and Raptors to provide some much needed support, only to find themselves the target of a firefighting assault by Mob#2 supported by the Gunz mob. Despite support by the Feral, they lost the assault roll-off by 1, and the remaining 4x bikes retired south a little way. (Big Blunder #2 - the intention was to put the bikes into assault range for next turn, but outside the assault of the unactivated mobs. However they moved 5cms to far, and of course the Raptors could not support having marched.) Without their champion, BL Retinue #1 could only summon 4x daemons to assault Mob#1, but with the DP, the remaining 6x Retinue and support of the Feral, this was sufficient to virtually wipe out the mob for the cost of 2x Daemons, the Ork remnants fleeing north. In return, Ork Blitz brigade #2 doubled, driving onto the dead of Mob#1 and firing on the Feral breaking it but causing no hits. In a typically ruthless manoeuver, BL Retinue #2 marched into Ork territory behind a BuA just west of the Raptors. Having only 3x Rhinos to transport 7x units, one was told to march or die, so it did just that!! Meanwhile the Stompa-Mob turned West to fire on Chosen#1, killing 1x Daemons and a Chosen and the Storm Boyz re-adjusted their screen to face both the Retinue and Chosen. End of Turn Daemons BL Chosen #1 decided to return a single Daemon to the pool (total 2) Rallying All BL formations rallied except the Feral, which retired furtherÃ‚Â behind the ridge to sort out its communications. Ork Kult rallied but Mob #2 failed Ã‚Â to rally, retiring into a small wood by their Blitz.

Author:	Ginger [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:25 am ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
Turn #2 Sit-rep :-BL retinue #1 on the big ridge is facing a ragged line of four Ork formations with two Blitz brigades to it's North and NE, while Mob #1 is immediately to it's East (partly in FF range) and the Gunz mob is in the BuA behind that. BL Retinue #2 and Raptors are in the BuA east and south of the Gunz Mob and in striking distance of Mob #1. Away to the north, Chosen #1 is West of the Storm boyz and Stompa mob, while slightly SE of the main battle, the remains of Chosen #2 are in a BuA in FF range East of the Ork Kult of Speed remnants. The remains of the BL Bikes are south of the main battle in striking distance of Mob #1. Initiative:- Ã‚Â BL (it is interesting to consider what would have happened if the initiative had gone the other way - more on this below) BL Chosen #2 assaulted the remnants of the Ork Kult of speed breaking it, but losing a unit in the process. The remaining two Ork vehicles withdrew to the NW corner of the battlefield attempting to hide the BTS. Then the Raptors retained and, supported by Retinue #2, assaulted the big Gunz mob completely wiping it out. However 3x Raptors died in the process so they broke, following the Ork Kult to the NW corner. In reply, Ork Blitz Brigade #1 assaulted Retinue #1 with some support from Mob#1, but was completely wiped out for the loss of a retinue. Moving the Bikes to support, Retinue #1 assaulted Mob #1, completely wiping it out in a FF assault for no loss. The Ork airforce attacked Retinue #2 again, killing another vehicle. Then Blitz Brigade #2 retained, doubling round the ridge to within 15 cms East of Retinue #2 but causing no hits. BL Retinue #2 summoned the remaining two daemons and moving NE through the BuA, assaulted and destroyed the Storm boyz, while Chosen #1 raised the Khornish Bloodthirster GD and, using it for cover, fired on the Stompa Mob without effect. Returning the favour, the Stompa mob fried the remaining chosen and Lesser Daemons but failed to damage either the Bloodthirster or Daemon Prince, which followed the stream of broken formations behind a hill to the NW corner of the battlefield. End of turn The Greater Daemon should have returned to the pool, but this got forgotten through tirdness. The BL Feral remained broken but Raptors and Chosen #1 Daemon Prince rallied, while the Ork Kult of Speed withdrew away from them to the SW edge of the table. Turn #3 Initiative:- BL BL Bikes and Retinue #1 destroyed the remaining Blitz brigade but suffered the attentions of the Stompa mob in reply. Retinue #2 fired ineffectively on the Stompa mob and was attacked once more by the airforce which failed to kill anything. Finally the Raptors marched south to control the western Ork T&H, while Chosen #2 marched south to control their own blitz. End of turn The BL Feral finally got it's radio working, and amazingly the Ork Kult of speed also rallied, denying the BL 'They Shall Not Pass', and as the assault had taken BL Retinue #1 out of control of it's objective, BL only had 'Take and Hold'. Turn #4 Initiative:- BL Well the Raptors assaulted and finally killed off the elusive Kult of Speed, but in doing so, moved too far away from the objective they were controlling. And try as they might, the BL did not have enough forces near the Stompa mob to break it, so denying the BL the possibility of capturing the Ork blitz. Result Black Legion 3-0 (BTS, T&H, TSNP)

Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

BL "Daemons" Vs Orks http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=13461	Page 1 of 4

Author:	pixelgeek [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:03 am ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
These are all very interesting but I think that in terms of playtesting we need some critical commentary from you and your opponent(s) regarding the games and what issues were present, what changes worked, what didn't etc. The result and the drama of the game is interesting but its also critical for gamers to provide some feedback about the interaction of the rules and the units to give the Army Champ and others the info they need.

Author:	dptdexys [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:40 am ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
Chosen #2 retained to assault the Gunz mob (which was on overwatch) - - - and was cut down before reaching their target despite being in cover, losing the Daemon Prince and a chosen. So they retreated south to be within 15 cms of the broken Kult. I thought that during an assault the attackers didn't get the benefit of cover.As the overwatch shots interupt the engage action after movement not before the engage action begins the attackers shouldn't be claiming cover bonus' as the assault has begun.(can we have a clarification on that please Neal). Also if the chosen are broken then they shouldn't be allowed to get within 15cm of the broken Kult or they would be destroyed.

Author:	alansa [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
Quote: (dptdexys @ 06 Sep. 2008, 10:40 ) Chosen #2 retained to assault the Gunz mob (which was on overwatch) - - - and was cut down before reaching their target despite being in cover, losing the Daemon Prince and a chosen. So they retreated south to be within 15 cms of the broken Kult. I thought that during an assault the attackers didn't get the benefit of cover.As the overwatch shots interupt the engage action after movement not before the engage action begins the attackers shouldn't be claiming cover bonus' as the assault has begun.(can we have a clarification on that please Neal). Also if the chosen are broken then they shouldn't be allowed to get within 15cm of the broken Kult or they would be destroyed. If I recall, the chosen where already in cover before they attempted their assault. There was a large ruined city block onto one edge of which gunz where camped and the chosen teleporting deeper into the city 15cm or so from the gunz. Chosen #2 can move between 16-30cm in order for it to engage and FF the KoS in turn 2 could it not? PG: commentary and discussion will follow in due course I'm sure...

Author:	dptdexys [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
Quote: (alansa @ 06 Sep. 2008, 12:46 ) If I recall, the chosen where already in cover before they attempted their assault. There was a large ruined city block onto one edge of which gunz where camped and the chosen teleporting deeper into the city 15cm or so from the gunz. Chosen #2 can move between 16-30cm in order for it to engage and FF the KoS in turn 2 could it not? PG: commentary and discussion will follow in due course I'm sure... It wouldn't matter if the Chosen started in cover,once an engage action is passed then the assaulting side lose all cover benefits wether they move or not.The report by Gavin states the Chosen2 assaulted and this triggered the overwatch shots so they shouldn't get the -1 for being shot at whilst in cover as they are assaulting. The second part of Gavins comment stated that the chosen moved within 15cm of the Kult whilst broken not moved to within 16-30cm so they could engage later.

Author:	The_Real_Chris [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
I thought the attackers don't get cover in an assault - which happens after the move and after any overwatch fire. Overwatch doesn't happen during an assault but before it.

Author:	alansa [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
Quote: (dptdexys @ 06 Sep. 2008, 13:03 ) The second part of Gavins comment stated that the chosen moved within 15cm of the Kult whilst broken not moved to within 16-30cm so they could engage later. ok that's an obvious mistake, either in the write up or in the actual game. To be quite honest I cannot remember what actually happened. I think Chris is write about the -1 for overwatching an assault. 1.12.5 says Infantry units from formations undertaking engage actions may not make cover saves But it does not say you lose the -1 to hit for being in cover against any overwatch fire that might occur.

Author:	Ginger [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
Quote: (dptdexys @ 06 Sep. 2008, 10:40 ) Chosen #2 retained to assault the Gunz mob (which was on overwatch) - - - and was cut down before reaching their target despite being in cover, losing the Daemon Prince and a chosen. So they retreated south to be within 15 cms of the broken Kult. I thought that during an assault the attackers didn't get the benefit of cover.As the overwatch shots interupt the engage action after movement not before the engage action begins the attackers shouldn't be claiming cover bonus' as the assault has begun.(can we have a clarification on that please Neal). Also if the chosen are broken then they shouldn't be allowed to get within 15cm of the broken Kult or they would be destroyed. Thanks for the spot - finger trouble in the write-up. The broken Chosen withdrew to a BuA but stayed 16cms from the broken cult, which they later successfully assaulted in FF. As for the initial assault, Chosen #2 teleported into buildings beside the Gunz mob. OW occurs after movement but before the assault takes place so IMHO, by ending up in the buildings at the end of their movement, they gain the benefit of cover from the OW fire, but not during the actual assault - though I think this would be an excellent FAQ. (In this case the question is somewaht irrelevant due to the accuracy of Ork fire and BL dire saves).

Author:	dptdexys [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
As for the initial assault, Chosen #2 teleported into buildings beside the Gunz mob. OW occurs after movement but before the assault takes place so IMHO, by ending up in the buildings at the end of their movement, they gain the benefit of cover from the OW fire, but not during the actual assault - though I think this would be an excellent FAQ. (In this case the question is somewaht irrelevant due to the accuracy of Ork fire and BL dire saves). I agree it could do with an FAQ or a comformation from NealHunt.As if it is played with the attackers still get -1 for cover they could technically claim cover from being in base contact with enemy vehicles they are assaulting,though that would be a very mature Brie situation not just cheesy Ã‚Â

Author:	The_Real_Chris [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
You only get the vehicle thing I thought from being in base to base with your own sides vehicles (is it written up as that?).

Page 1 of 4	All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	dptdexys [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:	BL "Daemons" Vs Orks
In the rules there is no mention of own side or not. Armoured Vehicles: Infantry count as being in cover and receive the -1 to hit modifier (but no cover save) if they are touching an armoured vehicle or war engine, to represent their ability to take cover from enemy fire by crouching behind the vehicle. I would imagine it was intended that way Chris but some could/would argue as it is not written that way its RAW counts. Therefor as Gavin said it could do with clarification.