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AMTL vs Eldar
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=12280
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Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  AMTL vs Eldar

So, what to do with the latest Titan list?
With a 'free' gatling the best way to max out on WE was the following.

AMTL
   Warlord - Gatlings
   Reaver - Gatlings
   2x Warhounds VMB
   1x Warhound - 'Suicide fit' Plasma Blastguns
   3x Ordinatus Minoris - Gatlings
   2x Tbolt formations - BB guns

Note no AP targets in the army and everythings a WE (so watch for LoF). Gatlings I think are great, being almost battle cannon and as good as TLD. But here we go with the min max.

The Suicide Warhounds job is to deep strike enemy assets like Deathstrikes, nasty artillary etc. In other words first activation charge enemy, hopeful kill/break target, then pray breaks and can retreat before being killed.

After several dozen Titan games I've learnt Warhounds are best with a mono weapons fit and the best role for them in my book is infantry hunting (though I will try the AT one at some point - a pack with TLD could be the equal of a warlord almost).

The Eldar Biel Tann were
   Fire Dragons,
         + Exarchs + Wave Serpents   (550) BTS
   Cobras (x2)                                (500)
   Shining Spears + Autarch            (375)
   'Big' Guardian                           (300)
   Storm Serpent                          (250)
   Storm Serpent                          (250)
   Falcons + Firestorms                   (250)
   Jet bikes                                   (200)
   Guardians                                 (150)
   Rangers                                    (125)
   Gate                                         (  50)

Deployment was as seen. Of course I placed objectives on  the mid way line near one of Gavins.

In retrospect I would have placed the Ordinatus where Titans could shield/support them in Assaults.

Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  AMTL vs Eldar

Turn 1

The events of the turn i no particular order until gavin helps me remember :)

The Eldar won init and allowed me to go first. The suicide warhound charged, did a point of damage to the Cobras (bugger) and was eventually hounded over to the right and killed by the aspects, storm serpent and jet bikes.
The Reaver did more damage to the cobras, forcing them to back off and marshal.
There is a mistake on the pic as the other storm serpent advanced, the guardians or shining spears failed to come out and it got nailed by two Ordinatus and the Warhound.
The Warlord and other warhound wiped out the Rangers (their overwatch was ineffective :) ).
One Thunderbolt lot failed to activate the other went Aspect hunting (following this they mostly stayed in their transports!)
The other ordinatus had a go at the aspects as well.

Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  AMTL vs Eldar

Turn 2

Init is a draw, AMTL go first (yes!)
Again in no particular order Warlord and Reaver with help from a warhound (off screen) break the Falcons and Cobra. The falcons are then finished off by some thunderbolts with the other thunderbolts having a go at the jetbikes.
Aspects kill an ordinatus
Red ordinatus dies and warhound isn't broken (sorry mistake on screen) in a series of moves by the guardians, stormserpent and shining spears. Shining spears manfully die to the last pointy ear (thats what you get for assaulting near a Warlord and failing to kill the warhound outright! :) )

Warhound fails to rally and runs off to the top left.

Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  AMTL vs Eldar

Turn 3

Eldar I believe go first (or maybe not, can't remember).

Embarissingly the storm serpent kills itself in an assault against the ordinatus (Gavin starts to revert back to his old dice rolling ways).
The Warhound pegs it and shoots the aspects with help from the thunderbolts, which then run off towards the blitz.
The avatar and guardians make short work of the remaining ordinatus. Warhound and thunderbolts pile into the aspects.
Warlord and Reaver shoot up Avatar and Guardians.

Warhound, Aspects and Cobra rallies.

Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  AMTL vs Eldar

Turn 4

Stopped bothering with the pretence of objectives.

Reaver and warhound finished off aspects (boy is Gavin good throughout the game with his WaveSerpent saves!).
Warlord and thunderbolts finished off guardians. Cobra fails to do much to warlord.
Warhound almost wipes out Guardians near blitz. Other thunderbolts fail to come in.

2-0 to me surprisingly (though I had long stopped doing anything tactical!).

2 Warhounds, Reaver and Warlord plus all thunderbolts survived.
2 Guardians and Cobra survive.

Gavin was doing a fair bit of hit and run out of sight in the game, forcing me to double a lot more than I wanted, but ultimately didn't help much.

Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  AMTL vs Eldar

Gatlings I think are great

If this batrep has done nothing else, it has returned the Gatling to being a +25pts weapon. :p

Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  AMTL vs Eldar

And that titans don't need to hide in cover all game?

Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  AMTL vs Eldar

I was having so much fun I entirely forgot about cover, barely using it all game!

Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  AMTL vs Eldar

Were you pushing forward with advance or double orders on your battle titans?

Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  AMTL vs Eldar

I think they always doubled, apart from on turn two where the Reaver sustained and on turn three when it advanced.

The Warhounds I think were nearly always doubling.

An all WE army is always a problem. AP weapons are near useless and they are good for assaults. My main mistake was not having the ordinatus with the titans for protection.

With no free gatling I guess the next free weapon for them is the rocket launcher, which I think would be just as effective.

Alternate options for future is popcorn list of Skitari and other such fun.

Author:  Ginger [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  AMTL vs Eldar

Chris has got most of the salient points as far as I can remember - and it was a fun game from my point of view as well, as I have never had a crack at the AMTL.

Strategy
By putting my first objective on my left hand side (nearest the camera), this caused Chris to concentrate his objectives near mine, and thus most of his army on this side of the battlefield. My plan was to oppose the main thrust of the AMTL with the threat of the Cobras and a weak defence, while I attacked the table center to try to pick off weaker units on his exposed flank. the main Eldar attack was intended to come out of the Warithgate and one or both Storm Serpents, but given that five AMTL formations had 60 cm weapons while most of mine were 45cms (and the Cobras crucialy only 30cms) I knew that I would only get one chance to do something with most of my formations before they got mauled and rendered ineffective.

Turn 1
As Chris says, the WH charged, I hounded it with the small guardians and then broke it with the Falcons which then became the second "weak defence" formation. I then decided to kill this warhound with the SS, bikes and Aspects both to burn of activations, and also to develop my Center-right attack, waiting as the AMTL thrust developed.

Unfortunately, at the critical moment towards the end of turn #1, my 'big' guardians failed to exit the wraithgate, and the second Storm serpent failed to double to deliver the Shining Spears, which therefore had to stand-down rather than get thrown away (so pic #1 is correct). As they contained my SC, I could not use his re-roll, so keeping them off-table was possibly a mistake in hindsight.

Turn 2 and the end
Chris won the all-important strategy roll, and blew away the falcons and broke the Cobras, also manoeuvering his Reaver and Warlord closer together (which stymied my assault plans *sigh*), so over to "plan b)" ?- concentrate on the centre - and the rest, as they say, is history, as Chris won all the other strategy rolls, and brushed off my puny assaults with impunity.

Comments
As Chris said, I was staying at distance all the game, forcing everything to double - but even so, the huge numbers of dice being used meant that even 7+ rolls were dangerous, and 6+ rolls distinctly frightening.

The Reaver and Warlord pair dominated the center-left of the battlefield, and with the two warhounds, proved very hard to attack. Chris was sporting enough to leave the wraithgate unguarded to give me a chance which my dice promptly scuppered :p , thus removing my one hope of a "rolling attack" with three big formations. Keeping all his formations together for mutual protection would have made a very different game, but might just have helped the Eldar to a more effective series of co-ordinated assaults - something to try next time.

With 10 activations, the AMTL were able to counterpunch well (too well IMHO), so I would agree that they are slightly underpriced - the extra 300 points from the Reaver and Warlord became 2x Thunderbolt formations and these extra activations made a significant difference.

Consequently if possible, I would like to see the minimum (and 'undergunned' :p ) Reaver at 650-700, and the Warlord at 700-750. Perhaps this could be achieved by making the "Scout" weapons free, (and the warhounds 275 each), while making all the normal Battle titan weapons +25, and the big toys more expensive (to stop Chris min-maxing again)??

Like I said, a fun game, and one I would like to retry with similar forces, because I think it was actually closer than the score (and body count) suggests .

Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  AMTL vs Eldar

As of the next version the Gatling will be back to being a +25pt weapon, meaning that this:

AMTL
  Warlord - Gatlings (I assume this had a Legate, otherwise you have a 2950pt army list here?)
  Reaver - Gatlings
  2x Warhounds VMB
  1x Warhound - 'Suicide fit' Plasma Blastguns
  3x Ordinatus Minoris - Gatlings
  2x Tbolt formations - BB guns

Would then be a 3250pt army list.

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