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Gargant Big Mob list development

 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:20 pm 
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Like with AMTL and titans, if you don't want to use multiple gargants don't use the gargant list

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:00 pm 
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Eh, okay. It's clearly a difference of list creation philosophy, which is fine - I've said my piece.

I'm hoping my next issue, which is related, is nevertheless distinct enough:

One of the things E&C identified with the old list was that the only competitive choice (i.e. the one that allowed for an army with enough activations to be effective in tournament settings) was to have one Great or Mega-Gargant, and one Gargant. In his stated opinion, it wasn't possible to run a tournament list with two Great Gargants, let alone two Mega-Gargants - there simply weren't enough points left over to bring up the activation count.

I guess my question is this: Are we aiming for the same situation, or are we trying to create a list where multiple Great or Mega Gargants could be a viable option? What would be necessary for that to work?


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:07 pm 
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3.1.1 version up. Please check for things i forgot. Will add stats to all units another day when i have time. If anyone has a template for the approved ork lists that i can use i would really like to have it!

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:32 pm 
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kadeton wrote:
I guess my question is this: Are we aiming for the same situation, or are we trying to create a list where multiple Great or Mega Gargants could be a viable option? What would be necessary for that to work?
If you want to play with 2 Mega Gargants then play with more points, 5000+ perhaps?


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:30 pm 
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uvenlord wrote:
If you want to play with 2 Mega Gargants then play with more points, 5000+ perhaps?

What size game should I need to be playing in order to field two Great Gargants?

I like the AMTL list and all, but every army I've seen has just used Reavers and Warhounds, and not bothered with the bigger Titans. That's not really a 'Titan' list, to my mind - it's just a Reaver Titan list with Warhound support. I'll be a bit sad if this list just ends up being a Regular Gargants with Supa-Stompa support list, and relegates the bigger Gargants to 'scenario play' - big stompy warmachines are a huge part of the appeal of the Orks for me.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter that much - I'll just use my Mega-Gargants as proxies for Gargants if that's the way it shakes out. The opportunity for customisation of weaponry is the most exciting bit of this list, and Gargants are just as good in that regard.

One thing I notice is that the AMTL weapon lists scale up dramatically in power as points increase - take the Plasma Cannon and Plasma Destructor for example. For the extra 50 points, you gain twice the firepower and +15cm range. It would be nice to see a decent level of firepower sneak into this list, even at a high cost - at the moment you can basically choose from 2-3BP or some flavour of MW3+ TK. I feel like the Gargants won't have a lot going for them when they come up against their significantly cheaper, more reliable and vastly better-armed AMTL counterparts.


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:41 pm 
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Except shitloads of better assault weapons and lots of DC more which also matters in assaults. I feel bad for the reaver/warlord that gets into an assault situation with a assault equipped Gargant/Great Gargant.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:51 pm 
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I'm not too familiar with the netea titan list but the EUK one sees a fair degree of variation in lists for tournament play (ie competitive lists). Warlords are enforced at minimum 1, with an additional battle titan per full 1k points. I believe that was for balance purposes.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:08 am 
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mordoten wrote:
Except shitloads of better assault weapons and lots of DC more which also matters in assaults. I feel bad for the reaver/warlord that gets into an assault situation with a assault equipped Gargant/Great Gargant.


I'm not sure that holds up - the best CC weapons this list has to offer are the Ripper Fist, which gets D3 attacks that are TK(1), or the Mega-Choppa/Lifta-Droppa which get a single TK(D3) attack. Compare that to the basic titan Close Combat Weapon, which gets three attacks that are TK(D3). Where are the 'better assault weapons'? A close combat Reaver will tear through a Gargant in no time.


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:45 am 
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Ok.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:16 am 
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Sorry, I've been grouchy for the past few days for unrelated reasons, and I think that's spilled over into these forums - I've been a bit too emphatic in my arguments.

Ultimately we all want the same thing - a fun, effective, Gargant-based Ork list. I'll save the rest of my concerns until after I do some playtesting.

Thanks for all the work you've put in so far. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:34 am 
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Gimme a horde of screening stompas, and I am good ;D Looking forward to a fun and playful yet reasonably competitive list! Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:17 pm 
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No worries Kadeton, thanks for all the feedback!

Yes, lets get the playtesting going! :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:41 am 
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hello guys.

So, had my battle with 3.1.1 list about a week ago. Battle report here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=29135

I'm going to try getting another battle in next week an test a few things more. Wouldn't mind if someone else did the same...

What I'm having in mind for the list is this:

Dropping the Drop rock.
Adding a rule about Gargant formations (Gargant, great Gargant and Mega Gargant) always get +2 when applying the "Mob Rule" special rule.
Addding to and tweaking some of the weapons and upgrades a bit.

How about that?

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:57 am 
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Twin Soopa Guns should be Great Gargant only (add a note stating so in the weapon list). They need to be really huge and it gives a reason for taking the larger Gargant.

Is there really call for two different CC weapons in the list? I would just go for a single version rather than having Ripper fist and Mega Choppa options. All the 6 different Imperial Titan CC weapons from previous editions are now just a single generic CC weapon in the AMTL tournament list.


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:19 pm 
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mordoten wrote:
hello guys.
Adding a rule about Gargant formations (Gargant, great Gargant and Mega Gargant) always get +2 when applying the "Mob Rule" special rule.


Great Gargants and Mega-gargants already have that, since you count starting DC for purposes of mob size. The gargant gets the +1 for being 8 DC, so that doesn't really seem necessary. Did you remember this in your battle report?


Quote:
Adding to and tweaking some of the weapons and upgrades a bit.


There's something odd about the Soopa Lifta Droppa being cheaper than the regular Lifta Droppa. I get the idea behind making it more powerful, and compensating by making it shorter range, so maybe that's just how it should be costed. But it's still irrationally bothersome.

Other than that, it's kinda hard to come up with new weapons when they already are so generalized (which also shows in the ones we have now - almost all MW barrage, or TK(D3).
If you are looking for more weapon options, then there was some talk about a big belly gun with multiple profile options. How about something like:

Gutbuster (Belly gun only) - either 60cm, 4+D6 BP - OR - 45 cm, 3 BP, MW, TK(1), slow firing

That way you can fire the TK profile maybe once per game (or twice, if you are lucky/opponent is careless), and the "regular" profile can be fired the rest of the time and gives a nice range from one extra template/no extra blast markers to two extra templates/two extra blast markers, depending on roll of dice - but no MW. Or 11-16 BP, if you have two twin Soopa guns!


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