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Gargant Big Mob list development

 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:34 pm 
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Yes, you are right. I decided to redo it into what i think a gargant list should be. But most of the things (besides the full customization bit) is taken from the 2.2 version ofvthe list tha talot of people seemed to like.

Hmm... I must have gotten it wrong that Great Gargants had 4 weapons slots. Let me look it up and i'llcorrect it.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:36 pm 
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Both Gargant and Great have 3 slots (2 arms and a belly). The great has two big guns on its shoulders though.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:38 pm 
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Ah, then i'll correct that!

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:41 pm 
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Supa stompas will have acess to 0-1 kustom upgrade, but their weapons will be set as before. They are a support formation and wont get the freedom the core formations enjoy.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:01 pm 
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Are these typos?

Lifta Droppa not having TK(D3) on its EA
Ripper First not having TK(1) on its EAs
mega kannon dropped

Other fun possibilities from SM/TL:

Cluster Buster: longer ranged, no-MW BP
Deth Kannon: volcano cannon-esque
Gork/Mork headers: +1/+2 to rally to nearby non-gargant formations
Slasha Attack Gun: more accurate, less RoF Gatling Gun
Scorcha Turrets
Gutbuster: slow firing huge BP or TK option (dual weapon mode)

My ideas:
Flak Gun turrets

The Transporta and More Dakka upgrades might need different costs per Gargant type.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:33 pm 
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The Kustom Upgrade section has "An upgrade may only be take once per unit." Is that intended to mean "Each unit can take up to one Kustom Upgrade" or "Each Kustom Upgrade may be taken once per unit"?

(I assume the second in which case it might be simpler and clearer to indicate 0-1 on each entry, as well as allowing for the possibility that some upgrades may be appropriate to allow more than one.)

Is Assault Weapon - Extra Attacks (+1) worth 25 points? That's the only difference between the Lifta-Droppa and the Supa-Zzap Gun.

Looking forward to seeing the rest of the list!


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:24 pm 
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Dave wrote:
Lifta Droppa not having TK(D3) on its EA

yes, missed that, thanks!

Dave wrote:
Ripper First not having TK(1) on its EAs

Yes, thats a typo!

Dave wrote:
mega kannon dropped

Yes, i switched it out for the twin soopa gun, 4BP MW on one weapon is crasy good and also the twin soopa gun features in other lists as standard weapon for the great garagant.

Dave wrote:
Cluster Buster: longer ranged, no-MW BP

Hmm... We have the Mega Lobba already for non MW-BP.

Dave wrote:
Deth Kannon: volcano cannon-esque

It's in there! first weapon in the list!

Dave wrote:
Gork/Mork headers: +1/+2 to rally to nearby non-gargant formations

This i like alot! Any idea what range the bonus should be?

Dave wrote:
Slasha Attack Gun: more accurate, less RoF Gatling Gun

I think the Gatling Gun will do...

Dave wrote:
Scorcha Turrets

Same profile as scorchas weapons?

Dave wrote:
Gutbuster: slow firing huge BP or TK option (dual weapon mode)

Not a fan of dual weapons realy. But what stats would you recommend?

Dave wrote:
My ideas:
Flak Gun turrets

AA is covered by the weirdboy tower upgrade.

Dave wrote:
The Transporta and More Dakka upgrades might need different costs per Gargant type.

But you pay more for the Gargant already in the base cost. Isnt that enough?

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:49 pm 
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I must say the v2.2 version appealed more to me, glad you've considered it

if any weapon in epic deserves two fire modes like that, it's definitely the gutbuster cannon!

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:20 pm 
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Ok, updated the OP with the new list. Hopefully theres not too many typos/fudge ups in there.

I will now climb down into my bunker and await the storm... ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:44 pm 
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Am I missing something or can you not buy additional stompas for the stompamob? Is it intentional that you buy 3,6 or 9?

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:07 pm 
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Damn! I forgot to add them! Thought they would cost +65 points each.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:43 pm 
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The Gargant Mob Extras section confuses me here: 3 Mandatory Kustom Gargant Weapon choices for
25/50/75 points each. I think it would be better if this was put in the Core Units section: "1 Great Gargant with three Gargant Weapons", etc.

I think the Mega Gargant should have its own row given this bit: Mega Gargants may not take any Kustom Upgrades or Kustom Gargant Weapons. In fact, I'd probably break it up into three rows for the Mega, Great and regular.

While I'll agree that Stompas aren't worth 75 a piece in my eyes, I think 50 might be too cheap.

The Oddboy with a Gargant Weapon is going to require a good bit of testing. Given the focus of the list is Gargants I'd lean towards removing that option.

I think you just call them "Gargant Weapons" and drop the Kustom.

Grot Guided Missiles seem more like an upgrade and not a dedicated weapon system (given they're single shot).

The 0-2 weapons, are those per Gargant?

mordoten wrote:
This i like alot! Any idea what range the bonus should be?


How about "Any formation within 15cm of a unit with the Gork/Mork Head may count this unit as part of itself for the purposes of the Mob Rule special rule." Simple, and effectively gives a +1/+2 to rally.

Quote:
Same profile as scorchas weapons?


Sure.

Dave wrote:
Gutbuster: slow firing huge BP or TK option (dual weapon mode)


Something like:

Code:
Gutbuster    90cm    MW3+    TK(D6), Slow Firing
   or        90cm    6BP    MW, Slow Firing


You'd also need a note saying: "The Gutbuster cannot shoot with one mode and then another while the first is reloading." or something like that.

Quote:
AA is covered by the weirdboy tower upgrade.


It is, but would that stop Orks from bolting a Flak Gun on a Gargant?

Quote:
But you pay more for the Gargant already in the base cost. Isnt that enough?


Maybe, but the Great is still getting more attacks or more transport capacity. In my mind that's worth more.

----
Some other thoughts.

Make Big Guns a custom upgrade and the Great Gargant have to take two kustom upgrades. That way you could customize the Great with two Big Guns/Scorchas/Wryd Boy Towers/Flak Guns/Grot Missiles on its shoulders.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:58 am 
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Some comments:

Do the Oddboys in this list come with their standard Soopagun/Supa-Zzap weaponry, or do they have to buy them as upgrades from the Gargant Weapons? I don't much fancy paying 100 points for an Oddboy to get the same weapons they normally get for 50. Even if you get the normal weapons by default, I'm not sure why you'd switch them for other Gargant weapons at that price. It might be simpler to leave them with their usual choice of weapon - leave the Gargant weapons for the Gargants. (Otherwise I suspect you'd see a lot of Oddboys lugging around Gutbuster Kannons.)

Can I suggest that the Mega-Choppa and Ripper Fist should probably be 0-1? (Possibly even 0-1 choice of melee weapon, rather than one of each.) While it would be hilarious to see a three-armed chainsaw-Gargant going hog-wild on some other hapless Titan, it's very out of keeping with normal expectations.

I'm not sure how I feel about Dreads, Kans, buggies etc being able to be transported - that's a weird image. Regardless, there are a few typos in the current Transporta description. For clarity and consistency, the current version should probably read something like:
    "The unit gains Transport. It may transport a number of infantry units, light vehicle units, Dreadnought units and Killa Kan units equal to twice its starting DC, plus a number of Grotz equal to its starting DC. Light vehicles and Dreadnoughts count as two units each."
Though I would personally reduce that to just foot infantry:
    "The unit gains Transport. It may transport a number of infantry units without Jump Packs or Mounted equal to twice its starting DC, plus a number of Grotz equal to its starting DC."

The pricing on weaponry doesn't seem quite right - a standard Great Gargant (Ghaz list) can get two Twin Soopaguns + Soopagun for 850 points, but the same loadout in this list costs 900 points.

No Nobz or other sources of Leader in the entire list? That's a bit hairy. Preserving the old Warband's option for 0-1 Nobz would be nice. Alternatively, adding a Leader bonus to the effect of Dave's Gork/Mork head could be a neat thematic alternative? No Nobz in the list, but the Boyz are bolstered by the Gargants instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:04 am 
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It would lead to them clustering round the gargants more for the bonus which is pretty thematic, as the gargants are manifestations of gork and mork you could expect the orks to be following them pretty blindly....

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:52 am 
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Hi, thank you for your effort with this list!

Some time ago I tried to patch together my own list just for fun. It didn't get far and was never intended to be anything official, but maybe you can get some inspirations from it. What's missing in the pdf are the unit stats, but they should be clear except for:
Mekboy Stompa: was supposed to replace the Supa Stompa as that one is so similar to the Gargants, and I wanted more variety in speed and AA. Its stats are the same as a Supa Stompa, just with a speed of 20cm and a weapon loadout of 2 weedy gunz, 2 Flakk guns, Gaze of Mork/Gork. So it is loosely based on a mix of a Supa Stompa, the old Kustom Gargant, a speed upgrade, and downgraded weapons to provide a cheaper "little-Gargant".
Iron Squig was supposed to be a nerfed Krawler, but I never got around to designing the rules. Nerfed, because IMO it had too many DC and was too safe as a transport.

I think the Killa Kan formation with scout is a nice theme to gain more cheap formations on the ground, competing with Fighta Bommas.

The idea behind the Mekboy KoS was to provide some speedy elements while keeping the mek theme.

Some comments to your list:
I think E&C mentioned once he planned to change the Bomma to 150 pts. Are you working off the same stats? Might the point drop also be appropriate here?

I cannot find any limitation on slots depending on your gargant choices, as in the old list. I think such a rule is definitely needed in a WE heavy army to prevent list with a few strong WEs and a lot of the cheapest formation for activations. With such a rule you probably also do not need to add a limit to Fighta Bommas, as the limited number of formation slots available will force you to decide between cheap air units and important ground troops.

I once calculated that Stompas - compared to our other walkers - would best fit in the 60-65 pts price range. +50pts for an additional Stompa might be too cheap, they are definitely better than two Killa Kans for the same price.


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