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Stompas and Supastompas
nealhunt
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:46 pm 
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I don't recall anyone raising any objections to Big/Uge Stompa mobs.  Despite that, I still want to throw it out there for comment.  Pricing as of right now would be 225/400/575.

I think it's needed because Stompas are just slightly overvalued at 75points.  Aside from beginners that just happen to have lots of Stompas putting together armies, I can't recall the last time I saw an Ork force that used any appreciable quantity of Stompas.  That leads me to think that others have also come to the same conclusion that Stompas are just not quite worth it.  I think that's a shame, as to my mind Stompas are quintessentially orky.

The 225/400/575 point cost has one of the smallest proportional discounts for Big/Uge in the list.  In that respect I do not think it will be a problem with respect to balance.

===

I think it's also widely agreed that Supastompas are too cheap.  In fact, the primary reason for seeing Stompas in an ork list is to get the relatively cheap Supastompa.  A frequently heard justification over the past 3 years has been "The Supastompa is too cheap but having to buy the Stompas makes up for it."

I propose that the Supastompa go to 300 points.  That's a pretty big proportional increase.  I recognize that a Supastompa surrounded by Stompas does have a certain vulnerability by virtue of being surrounded by slow AVs that are vulnerable to crossfire.  If anyone would like to make the case that 275 would be better balanced, please do so.  Please also address the changes of Big/Uge Stompa mob pricing and how that might affect the valuation.

Also, in proposing Big/Uge Stompa Mobs, I originally thought it best that the Supastompa be 0-1, regardless of mob size.  In retrospect, I'm not so sure that's a good idea.  It is a bit fiddly and I'm not convinced it would be a necessary restriction, especially once the point cost of the Supastompa is increased.  As a large portion of the Supastompa firepower is BP, there is a built-in diminishing return from putting several in a formation.  I think a straight 0-1 would probably be just fine, but like the rest of the changes I've posted, I'm open to opinions and suggestions in this regard.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:55 pm 
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I fully support all of the above proposals.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:47 pm 
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I like the Stompa Mobs being given the Big/'Uge option... and there's no need for an arbitrary secondary restriction on the 0-1 for Supa-Stompas... with the supported increase in points, it's self-limiting.

P.S.  Where's the new WAAAGH!!! forum in the Epic Armageddon Focus HQ forums?

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:00 pm 
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No argument from me. Supastompas are in almost every Ork list I see as a default purchase which always seems to indicate to me that there is something amiss

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Chroma
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:12 pm 
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(pixelgeek @ Sep. 05 2007,16:00)
QUOTE
No argument from me. Supastompas are in almost every Ork list I see as a default purchase which always seems to indicate to me that there is something amiss

Well, dey are ded Orky and naff and shooty!  Wot Warboss woodn't take 'em?  *laugh*

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Markconz
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:56 pm 
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Sounds fine to me.

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Justiniel
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:49 am 
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A sound proposal, I'd go along with that too.

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rpr
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:15 am 
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Both sound fine (300 point supa, big/huge stompas) - stompas still feel a bit pricey (compare to imperial
tanks and dreadnoughts,...), but this is a step to better direction - now I could test 6 stompa formation without supa-stompa (so that they can garrison =)
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yme-loc
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:06 am 
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Personally I would go slightly outside the box and make ork heavy guns AP4+/AT5+ makes stompas, heavy guns and gunwagons actually worth it.

I would make the supa stompa 275pts at the end of the day its got alot of fire power but its slow and speed is king in epic.

But no big and Uge stompa mob at 575pts for 9 thats a pretty effective tough formation that can garrison on overwatch (with the new rules) - sometimes its not the best idea to allow points breaks in these sorts of specialist formations.

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rpr
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:21 am 
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(yme-loc @ Sep. 06 2007,12:06)
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Personally I would go slightly outside the box and make ork heavy guns AP4+/AT5+ makes stompas, heavy guns and gunwagons actually worth it.

Hear hear! A reason to take gunwagonz and stompas for themselves
alone, not as a way to get flak/supa-zapp/supa stompa ...
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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:11 pm 
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I just can't bring myself to use them. A stompa for 75pts I can get three buggies/skorchas for that. This is the one formation that never justifies itself to me so I'll bow to the greater wisdom of those that have found a use for them.

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TheLimey
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:47 pm 
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(yme-loc @ Sep. 06 2007,05:06)
QUOTE
Personally I would go slightly outside the box and make ork heavy guns AP4+/AT5+ makes stompas, heavy guns and gunwagons actually worth it.

That may help with another problem - the Blitz Brigade full of flakwagons.

Would we have to reprice the gunwagons and heavy guns?

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:53 pm 
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(Hena @ Sep. 05 2007,16:13)
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Ps. Did you ask for E:A Orks from Cyber?

It may have been a victim of my email meltdown last week if sent. Anyway, I decided to use my init... inisc... inizi... own brain and set it up. I have moved the posts across. Let me know if I missed any, of if anything else is needed.

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Stompas and Supastompas
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:45 am 
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Thanks CS,

I think that AP4+ for big guns might make them a little bit too good.

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