Hope you decide to stay on as AC Mordoten, maybe a little Battle report might change your mind?

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Just some guy

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So, after having some discussions with people over PM I've decided to do this. I will put out one last version of the list as i think it should be. And then i will make a poll where the community gets to decide which direction the list should take.

This is my opinion:

I'm dead set on that the Mob Rule and "push em" rule needs to stay as it is for the list to be playable in a tournament setting. I've tried the list without them in earlier versions and it's makes the list way too weak. I'm sure of this and won't put my name on a list without thoose rules. Simple as that.

BUT

I also recognize that the list is for the epic community to use and decide on in the end. So I want to give the chance for the community to develop the list in the direction the majority feels it should be taken. But that will have to happen without me as i can't see the list being good and balanced without the current Mob rule and "push em" rule.

So the poll will have 2 different choices. The first is to keep the existing rules and structures but will allow for tinkering with the points and maybe some minor stat changes. But it will be minor changes only. The second option will be to make bigger changes to the rules and structures of the list. If the first option gets most votes i will stay on as AC, if the second one gets most votes I will step down and let someone else keep developing it.

I see this as the most honest and democratic way of doing it.

Other than that, when you give feedback please do it in a matter thats note rude. Think about what you're writing and if you would say it like that to my face. I'll reserve the right to get pissed off when i feel it is warranted. This is supposed to be a fun thing (developing lists) and getting verbally battered (with condesending or sarcastic language) will not make it so.
I'm also guilty of having being overly aggresive/rude to people on this forum before, but lets try and keep that out in the future. I hope that is clear to everyone.

I will update the OP with the new list and then set up the poll.

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https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Oh, and i red all the suggestions for changes and typos. I used a few. If they're not in the new version it's because i felt they where not important.

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https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

I might be really blind, but I can't see the statline in the reference for Gunfortresses. I can see Battlefortresses, but not the other.

On list details -

First, and I know it's been something discussed heavily, but better ground attack options to compensate for (purely my preference) making aircraft less overabundant would be something that would dramatically improve the list. I *LOVE* aircraft, have probably 20 or so fighta-bommas in my Orky drawer, but I'd rather see non-aircraft in this particular list from a solely thematic point of view. As much as I love them, a limit of one unit per gargant would probably be a good thing. Heck, two to three units max wouldn't upset me in any way. I don't know if buggy/biker outriders or kustom battlewagon mobs or maybe even kustom speedstas are the option, but something-not-flying for the meks not involved with the gargants would be superb.

Second, how sold are you to using the Mob Up rule, and how open are you to a possible alternative? I definitely think something for rallying is important to help make up for low initiative and low unit counts - not to mention the god-idol nature of Gargants. Theme and rules-need doesn't synchronise often, but here it does. That's worthy of a special rule, IMO.

I like the work that's been done so far on it, and if I played more I'd love to play these more - the old, dorky gargant models are easily some of my favorites and worthy of a great list. Please keep it up.

Oh FFS, i forgot about it...again! Thanks for spoting it. It's the third time i forget to add it...





Well, I've thought about this some too. One of the lists weaknesses is that it's very slow. Sure, you can add a battlefortress or 2 gunfortresses to your lootas. but that comes with a big points cost. It would be cool to have some kind of mechanized unit in the list that would symbolize the meks and their worker zipping around the feets of the gargants. But it would mitigate the weakness of slow movement for the list. So i think it would be hard to implement but I'm open to suggestions.



As i stated in my last post I think the +2 mob up rule is essential for the list to be playable. Yes, the Gargants (and Supa-Stompa) needs help with rallying for sure.
And instead of making up even more special rules (we've invented "push em harder ladz" for this list already) I went with using an existing one. I did get a really nice and fluffy wording for the rule from a friend the other day that might justify it more fluff-wise.
But do you think it's better to make up a special rule or is it just easier to use the existing mob up rule (with modification)?



Thank you very much. Yes, i love them too and it's a shame they don't get to be used as much as they deserve nowadays. Hopefully we can change that and enjoy big, fat orky robo-behemoths regularly again!

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https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

I'll definitely have a think on this. What I come up with might not be terribly balanced, but I've been told no before and maybe it'll spark someone brighter than me to "kustomize" something perfect for the list. I'm not sure I'd worry too much about putting in units of fast troops. If they're sufficiently limited in number and sufficiently suitable in theme, I'm not sure they'd break the game too badly - consider the Warhound Titan and Crusader Robot from AMTL lists and the Eldar Revenant Titan from your counterparts over in the Fir Iolarion bunker.




It very well may be that Mob Up does the job perfectly sufficiently and sits without too much overcomplication, and as I haven't played with the list at all I'm certainly not the one to judge. I was idly thinking about giving Mega/Great Gargants a flat +2 to the rally tests of any friendly unit in LoS, while Gargants get a +1. Only the highest bonus would be claimed. If a unit with the rule is killed, it gives all friendly units in LoS a blast marker (Orks don't like it when their gods go bang, after all). Lots of benefit plus a little downside and some encouragement for opponents to try and knock those big beasts out instead of the other, perhaps easier to accomplish, victories.

Well, what the Gargants lack in speed towards their imperial and eldar counterparts, they make up in resilience. With more DC on every type of Titan they are harder to break and dish out more attacks in assaults. And thoose 2 things are very inportant aspects of the game.
That needs to be taken into consideration when thinking of allowing faster units.



I think also Gargants needs to have the +2 modifier. You cant have 600p WE:s rallying on 4+/5+ and have a competitive list when their Imperial and eldar counterparts rallies on 3+/4+. It's just to much of a downside (IMO).
I do like the idea of the BM for all units when a gargant goes down though! It is a nice rule in the AMTL list also.

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https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

After discussing the list with some Swedish players and telling them of the concerns people have about too many Gargants on the board a great (and old) idea came up! But a mandatory choice of a Mega or Great Gargant into the list structure. Just like i the EpicUK AMTL list.
I like the idea because Orcs are all about the "biggest is best" mentality. And of course a Warlod/Big Mek would want the bigesst, baddest and shootiest Gargant on the field!

What do you guys think about this?

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Just a random thought, but how about the opposite for Orks? If they lose a gargant everyone loses a BM. I have no idea how this would affect the list at this point but could be interesting.

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-Vaaish

I like it

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

I like this idea too.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

True, but when an Gargant list can often be prevented from getting into assaults (which was the force behind the extra movement rule, as far as I recall), there isn't much left by way of advantage there. Limiting things to a few faster units will help keep them overpowering the list's theme, and a small handful of swift formations (one per gargant, even) will help coral/scout or otherwise frustrate opponents movement to help the gargants actually get into positions to be used. Something from the Harlequins list could also be applied if you're concerned about the fast units here - make them able to contest but not claim objectives.



Great Gargants would give Gargants (and any other units in LoS) a +2 to the rally roll. Just another reason to avoid spamming only 'lesser' Gargants, which is rather appropriate IMO.

Personally I think Great Gargants should be taken, but the option to NOT take one (like IG don't have to take a Regimental HQ selection, or Marines a SupCom) should still be available, just disincentivised. I'd focus more on trying to make GGs a greater force magnifier than Gargants, personally. Allow 1-3 support choices per Great Gargant but only 1 per 'lesser' Gargant, perhaps?

So all Ork formations would shed 1 BM if a gargant dies? Isn't that a very good thing for the list to have? At first glance it seems kinda weird to be honest...

Or am I understanding you wrong?

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

That does seem back to front.

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The Wargaming Trader
NetEA Death Guard Army Champion

I like the mandatory Mega/Great gargant idea a lot

Also happy to keep planes in the list too, they provide some small amount of ability to hit the enemy baseline which the list needs if it wants to try to cut down activations early on, AMTL and Fir Iolarian both have planes after all

I'm happy keeping the rally bonus, building it into a list-wide rule would be best IMO, maybe stompas could get +1 rather than +2 which puts them on par with shadowswords and similar...

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Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator