I'll like to stick to the topic of the AA upgrade firstly. Secondly i would like to discuss the possibility of removing all extra unit options from the supa stompa.
I'm more than happy to talk about the upgrades in general snd other stuff too, but not right now since it's to many topics to handle at one time.

First: AA-upgrade.

I agree that it's probably too good. Since the list has access to one of tje best arial units in the game (fighter-bombas) i don't think it's good for them to have the best AA also (potential for 3 MW5+ shots).
Of all the ideas thrown out here i like Kyussinchains idea of a "flakka-dakka" best. D3+1 AA6+ hits with a 30cm range feels orky and the name is awesome! And it would stay as a custom upgrade.
I'm not too keen on having the wyrdboy tower as a weapon choice to be honest. It's still very good and gives the gargants to good defense against air assaults.

Secondly: extra units for Supa-Stompas.

Too avoid giving people to gamey placement of for example a flak wagon 25cm away from the supa stompa (which would let it contest another objective by itself possibly) i'm considering to take away all the extra unit options from the unit.

What do you guys think of theese suggestions?

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Just on upgrades, I think a 25/75 (or 50/75) cost for one/two upgrades is a good thing, then balance the effects close to that value. I also like the idea of up to one upgrade on slasha/gargants and up to two for great gargants.

On AA, as it stands I think everyone can agree it's a bit (a lot?) too much. AA 6+ (but d3/d3+1 shots) is very "orky", gubbinz that are either wildly effective or wildly inaccurate, but always allow the player to roll many, many dice and yell "dakka" a lot. Any upgrade which includes the name "More Dakka" or "More Flakka" or "Flakk Dakka" (note not flakka, but just flakk) gets my vote.

The AA suggestion of d3+1 AA6+ would get my vote.

Upgrades for Supa Stompas could stay for me, stringng out formations can makes it easier for opponents to do clipping assaults.
Also if taken it keeps the number of activations down which I think should be the main downside of any Gargant/Titan list.
BTW a lone flak waggon could not be 25cm away from the stompa, WE's have the 5cm per DC for coherency but flak waggons don't (the Flak waggon still needs to be within 5cm for its own coherency), it would need 2 AV's (within 5cm of each other) to be able to do that.

well, i was tyhinking of letting killa Kanz and Stompas stay because they are equally slow as the Supa-stompa and can't do a 60cm double move on the last turn to grab objectives as easy as 2 flak wagons...

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Managed a game vs UvenLords Iyanden yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31103

Gargant won by 2-0 (T&H and Blitz) in Turn 3.

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I don't mind the idea of stringing out slow units with a couple of fast scouts siege masters can do it and as Dave says, makes them very vulnerable to being clipped (especially as gargants, even on turn 3 will be out activated). They also give you a pretty easy route to breaking the supastompa with shooting (ie plink the 2 wagons for 3bp).

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Yes, Uvenlord used tactics like that in our game. He air assaulted One supa-stompa with 2 flak wagons in a way that i had to put to of 4 hits on the flak wagons = two easy kills for his wraithguard MW ff.
I don't think it will be a problem at all keeping them.

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Before this gets too buried (and not saying I'm great at English either) how about something like this simple note being added?


I assume that the withdraw moves in losing an assault shouldn't have that either. I mean, what self respecting ork Pushes It 'Arder to get away from a good scrap?

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Had a game against the ladz and here are my 5 cents

AA: I would suggest you keep both the Wyrdboy tower and the Flakka Dakka but make the tower 1 shot (and increase range to 45?)

Boilers: My input is that (the boiler and) push em arder boys is perhaps a little too good right now. 20 cm move for all Gargants is a huge advantage. But then I really like the concept so some suggestions…
I really like that they start fires instead of doing damage. Feels very orky! But right now, the boiler upgrade makes the roll almost unnecessary as you first have to roll snake eyes and then get a second “save” of 5+ for putting the fire out. You could go two ways, take away push em arder for all Gargants and make it an upgrade...(boring)
But my suggestion would be to make the fire happen all the time. So if you move 20cm anytime during an activation = fire. (activation, not move) Boilers could be an upgrade that makes this only happen on a 1 instead. This would also take away a lot of (unnecessary) dice rolls.

And when I was thinking about fires, how about an upgrade that lets you put out fires on 3+ instead… Perhaps a Water tower

Extra units, like flakwagons etc. is ok with me. I do not think the last turn grab is a problem. If the Gargants has more activations then you in the last turn so (s)he can freely stretch out a formation like that and not get shot/engaged you are loosing anyway

I like the idea of auto crit when no boiler on push and a water tower to help putting fire out

wonder if you need a boiler upgrade *and* a water tower though – maybe just 1 of them?

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Yeah think I like the water tower better than reinforced boilers actually. And the auto fire. I quite like the idea that it's impossible to stop a fire starting but can limit its damage. Need to think about when is the best time to let them douse the fire. Thinking it would be good if the fire gets 1 round of damage before a chance to put it out.

Or, could potentially make it so the water tower gives a +1 when determining the fire effect (or -1, I never remember which way the table goes). So it would basically be to stop the gargant exploding.

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Good idea. Yes, autocrit is good. In our game i pushed the boilers several times and only rolled 1 once. That was rerolled with reinforced boilers so the threat of crits was nonexistant basicly.

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a harsher option on the water tower would be to make it single shot. Automatically puts out all fires on the gargant in an end phase, but only 1 use per game.

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my worry is that we're now inventing special rules to counteract other special rules....

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the number of special rules is no greater.

fire crit on push become auto, not roll (same number of rules, less rolling)
watertowers replace boilers (same number of rules/upgrades)

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