kyussinchains wrote:
Turn 1
fightas strafed and killed 3 war walkers, nightwings strafed rightmost lootas, killed two boyz, lootas tried to double, failed, removed blast markers, guardians on far right marched to behind buildings, stompa doubled, pushed it arder and had it's head blow off from a crit (we played a crit on a roll of 1 rather than a point of damage) needing 7's to hit the wave serpents it scored a hit which was saved, 2 blast markers, falcons doubled and shot the stompa stripping shields, fightas went on CAP (actually first activation they shot down a nightwing), wraithguard on foot marched, g.gargant doubled (pushed 'arder twice and got a fire) and managed to draw a line of sight on wraithguard, killed two stands, remaining ork stuff advanced, vampire air assaulted lootas on right, wiped out for the loss of two wraithguard, one set of fightas mauled on flyoff down to 1 plane
Turn 2
eldar win strategy, guardians engage second loota mob, wipe out for a single stand, eldar retain twice and do some shooting at supa stompas, g.gargant fails to sustain fire at wraithguard BTS, takes BM and shoots killing two more stands including supcom, they break. headless stompa engages falcons with g.gargant in support, wipes them out but takes two damage, stompa is then broken by guardians engaging it
Turn 3
eldar win strategy, nightwings finish off stompa, second stompa is broken by wraithguard+falcons, g.gargant fails to single, takes bm and moves into eldar half, gargant fails to finish off wraithguard BTS, falcons claim T&H objectives, guardians march to blitz, eldar win 2-0
while it wasn't a massive loss, I never felt like I was in the game at all, my shooting was dire as I was either doubling, headless or failed to sustain at units in cover, taking crits for the boiler made me very cautious, luckily the fire in the great gargant went out at the end of the turn, but it could have been a different story
generally the list felt frustrating to play, it certainly didn't feel like AMTL does, where your opponent tends to cower in fear....
thanks for the report and effort, kyuss.
and honestly as it turned out for you is more or less excatly what i imagined what would happen.
seriously.. any games with that list nearly turn out the same. shooty gargants need to double first turn hitting virtually nothing with their barrage work. -1 for double and extra -1 for cover you never hit anything better than on 6+ or worse in case of av in cover. next turn you try to do some damage but are blastmarkered and will need a 4+ to sustain. half of the time you will catch hold. i'm not afraid of shooty great gargants one least bit. they are just a big point grave imo. if you're opponent is stupid enough to do more than just place 3bm on them and not focussing on the important units its his fault alone for losing, because it just takes too much to kill it off. the assault gargants are a bit more dangerous but seriously you just feed them some lousy 100 or 150pts scout unit each round and keep them at distance. all you have to do is prevent the loota bands from stripping your scout screens. and they are quite soft targets. the only war engine worth the effort killing are supa stompas. and normaly they are quite forward so normally it is fairly well doable to get them into crossfire position with many options at your disposal.
my rule of thumb for battling against them is:
ignore great gargant (except for 3 bm (in case of onboard sc)), use scout or whatever to block if you must
bm and break or ignore gargants; use scouts or whatever ceap to block
kill supa stompas
from my experience the only thing that keeps this list going are the loota warbands and fighta bombas. everything else you can keep at bay at low cost or can simply ignore, cause it's either bogged down if you play at least half decently or it struggles with failed activation rallying. of course the dice may be against you and some gargants do actually what the ork player wants them to do.. but on the average it should be more than handable.
the only thing with some real ranged smack in it is the mega gargant. but you hardly see that in a 3k battle.
in my battle vs. largo the mega was the only thing hitting anything at all. killing two shadowswords and nearly a already broken leman russ company by blastmarkers alone when the mega managed to order "advance" eventually (all over the course of 3 turns). the only thing my great gargant achieved was engaging a mechanized company in third round and killing half of it. (honestly i still don't know why you put them within 25cm, largo.
you could have spared some some cheaper unit.) the only reason largo didn't smoke me after killing my other gargant all 9 stompas and supa stompa was for 2 landa actions from other players tables taking out superheavy comps.
largos build was not specifically tailored to counter gargant big mobs because opponents where detemined randomly.
the same i managed vs. beelzemetz when battling his gargant list. it wasn't that hard a fight. admittedly i had a burning great gargant 25cm away from my blitz in the last round but everything else of him was out of the picture. failed activations, lousy chances to hit, heavy bm from disrupt and the casual scout unit thrown in his way simply left him stranded somewhere unimportant. i didn't manage to kill of any of his engines (well, the supa stompa just survived because of beelze cheater dice) but it didn't matter cause it did not really try, killing off his lootas and dominating his figter bommaz with aa and fighters was enough. and the boilers (former upgrade at 50pts) didn't help much.
i'm much more afraid of amtl. they at least hit something at range. and activate on at least 2+ if blastmarked. not 4+. also their ranged fire hurts so much more and equipped rightly they rip as much in a ff as any gargant. also they regain shields, warlords can't be crossfired and equipped with quake cannos and fire control centers will deal out a world of hurt... and still.. on the advance any stupid/brave sentinel will block them most effectively. and whats more frustrating than harving to deal with a sentinel between you and the objective when you're an emperor titan. wasn't this you as well in that tournament game, largo?
no engine list works without good small unit support, no matter what upgrades. but of course they will work nicely if supported smartly. and thats when you have to check costs thoughtfully and limit support in a way, in order to avoid the often mentioned powercreep imo. so my biggest concern with the big mob list is the oddboys upgrade on the lootas.
edit.. sorry for that long text and thanks to anyone who bothered reading.
cheers guys. enjoy your weekend... whooey gt time.. so much for "soup"
