Another thing which I just realized, in the current wording, Walker could be used for the boilers. Its (dangerous terrain test) only mentioned there to make sure the boilers dont produce blast markers, I guess.
You could add the BM-mechanic though, making boilers even more dangerous to use and even more "luck-testing". Not sure how far fetched that is, though.

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gonna take this list for a run out tonight

Gargant Bigmob (3.2.3 - Developmental)
==================================================

GREAT GARGANT [850]
Soopa Zzap Gun, Mekboy Big Boss, (Kustom) Wyrdboy Tower, (Kustom) Head of Mork/Gork, 2 Soopagun

GARGANT [675]
(Kustom) Wyrdboy Tower, 2 Soopa Zzap Gun, Soopagun, (Kustom) Head of Mork/Gork

SUPA STOMPA [300]
3 Soopagun, (Kustom) Extra Armour Bitz

SUPA STOMPA [300]
3 Soopagun, (Kustom) Extra Armour Bitz

LOOTA WARBAND (NORMAL) [265]
6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, Battlefortress, Big Gunz

LOOTA WARBAND (NORMAL) [265]
6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, Battlefortress, Big Gunz

FIGHTA-BOMMERS [150]
3 Fighta-Bommers

FIGHTA-BOMMERS [150]
3 Fighta-Bommers

batrep with pics (I *SWEAR*) to follow

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hi all,

as i'm following the ongoing discussion about the boiler options and mob rule i would like to add some thoughts myself.
i play this list and have been battling 3 games with them so far (one being a mega battle vs. largo including all gargant types) and 1 game against them using eldar (vs. beelzemetz).
my feeling about loosing a weapon when using a boiler is mixed. from my experience when i go for a shooty gargant i go for range (60cm+) with soopa gunz, deth cannons, etc. so i normally don't care that much for speed, so i wouldn't take the boiler. i haven't used the list in its current state but was using weirboy towers and extra shielding for the big and normal gargant and axtra armour plating for the supa stompa. when battling beelzemetz he made use of boilers extensively in order to get within ff range, doubling all the time where his firing was of low accurancy of course and personally i think it wouldn't have any impact on if he was one weapon short but had no drawback to his boilers. losing a weapon and having drawback to the gargant (difficult terain, bm, etc) is not an option imo. weapon loss and speedboost with no side effect might be considered, but than the boiler should come at reduced cost. 

thinking back to the old titan legions days i actually prefer a third option. the snapper was quite a valid weapon option back then using superheated steam from the supercharged boiler (that was used tho boost speed) as short range steam blast weapon ignoring cover. so i grabbing that old weapon/boiler concept, largos losing a weapon, my experience boilers for assault gargant only and boiler drawbacks, wouldn't it be viable to add the boiler as a weapon (snapper) and to remove it from the customs section? as a stat suggestion adding 5cm speed per move at no penalties and +3 ea (15cm) ic for maybe 25pts? this could pair up nicely with the "more dakka" upgrade and will still leave a slot open.

as for the mob rule it is essential to have those gargants active. the supastompa alone is a thing that fits thematically and would be to expensive activation wise when including it as an upgrade to the stompa mob (like ghazkull list) just in order to keep it going. i always go for extra armourplating to give it just that one extra bm resistance. the megagargant is out of the question but beelze had to experience just how easy it is to bm a gargant with disrupt barrages and then facing a firefight with first strikern like warp spiders. except for his big gargant everything elso was constantly broken (at least it felt like it) with his supastompa not even firing a shot in the whole game. it is a solid drawback in this low activation army and needs to be countered somehow in order to keep the list playable. therefore i'm much in favour of the mob rule on gargants.

So in essence you want gargants etc to have the same speed as AMTL, more weapon systems, be cheaper with no drawbacks?

Seems legit

Hey Junkstar!

Both on facebook and here you respond like a teenager with a bad attitude problem. If you have nothing constructive or intellegent to say please refrain from posting. Dick.

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Junkstrar,

no dude, i don't. dunno if you didn't understood correctly or if i'm articulating badly. sorry for the latter one.
anyways, to put it more direct: you will in consequence lose a weapon as it is occupied by the snapper/boiler. Giving you 5+ speed and 3 ff extra attacks for a point cost as a compensate for the loss. actually  it is an upgrade blocking a weapon slot. in order to fit it rulewise and to avoid missunderstanding about the loss i would put it in the weapons section and remove boiler from custom upgrades..

only Dick appears to be you. So my point isnt valid as it AGAIN proves the disparity between the game other armies, originality and playability.

But hey as long as you keep buffing it to keep you in power any comments made which proves you are railroading this list on a parity with unbeatable cheap zerg force proves a point - no skill required.

More than one have voiced concerns in going up against this army, yet you say show batreps, your batreps of winning 4-0 3-0 are the alarm bells. Boilers should of gone to Steam Gargants, but then hey why not reduce the points of your army more?

so my 3-0, 2-0 and 2-0 losses don't count?

2 data points does not a good graph make....

also guys, let's stop with the name calling and personal insults please, keep it civil

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Army Forge List Co-ordinator

Well, I beat them 2:0. 2 boilers in play. So what does that show?
And m opponent plays fairly well orks for years and top ranks at tournaments. It doesn't show that much at all. I also i have a gaming buddy that I win against like everytime in 15years no matter what he comes up with. I guess you see my point.

you must be a cheese eldar player then?

Its zerging lists that is making other heads of sheds zerg there list - case in point DA. Whats next to be seen? AMTL warlords getting the 2 spare carapace mounts activated and the single weapon surcharge removed? Trust me would love to see a 6 gun turbo laser destructor Warlord - even better a reduced movement and cost

What do you exactly mean by a zerg list? Can you give some more exact examples of what it means? You've used that line several times but i still don't get what it means.

I know my friends that play Starcraft talks about "Zerg Rush" which is them running very quickly with their smallest units to overrun the other player before he can produce any of his. I don't think they are related though.

And your passive-aggresive writing is not helping to prove your point. I think Largo W did an excellent job of clearly explaining his concerns about the list. Several of them actually stuck and went on my "investigate" list. Maybe you could try that also?
If not I'm not interested in your posts on this matter and will stop answering them.

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good - but read this

Zerg - to make all powerful with no weaknesses.

How will this list affect the Epic Community as a whole?

Powercreep, lower costing upgrades and units whereas its a game based on strategy skill and luck of the dice. You are removing strategy by zerging your stompas, skill by having more low cost units, and luck of the dice removed as you will have bucket loads to roll, no doubt a free special mechanic upgrade will be brought in if you do roll a 1 something along the lines of the grots hold hands around the creaking boiler stopping it from exploding

The list as talked about on FB and here has shown that at our club whenever the list is brought no one plays against him. Its had nids, AMTL, SL Heavy Mech IG thrown at it. All with the same outcome defeat.

So what does this do to the community; shown at our club we avoid it like the plague, or make everyone field orks or thirdly what I'm dreading is everyone else gets the power creep and it cascades or rather train wreck into other lists.

A few upgrades/tweeks are OK but the list needs weakness and you have countered your only weakness - that of movement - by the army rule.

So keep continuing to zerg the list, make it as un-enjoyable as you can to go up against and finally remove any chance of strategy or skill.

Where are all these results you're talking about? This is the first time I've heard about them, and only then by passing reference.

If all you post is "OMG nerf gargants!!111!one" people can hardly be expected to address your concerns. Post your results, findings, thoughtful comparisons and suggestions. Other groups don't seem to be getting the same results, and a new list is probably going to take a while for opponents to get used to (see Necrons) but it doesn't mean it's always overpowered.

In any case, if players do have concerns the right way to go about it is to give thoughtful, precise and constructive feedback. as we've seen in others' recent posts.

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junkstar, i really feel your concerns and frustrations with this list. I especially appreciate and respect the worry about knock on effects and power creep as well. We're both "in the same band" figuratively speaking.

However Kyrt is correct that unfortunately by not posting anything actionable your concerns are not and CAN NOT be addressed. That's the simple point. No one is ignoring you, slighting you, or out to get you, but unless there's something to analyze then nothing can be done. That's what you are seeing, not a bunch of happy go lucky gee aren't we great zerg players slapping themselves on the back.

I've got the impression that likely the history with the list has been so ugly in your club that the frustration level is and disgust is high which at that point I can see and understand how one would be loathe to even bother anymore. Instead of letting it get to that point (going forward) a quick post stating the version and list from both sides and at least some brief overview of what happened in the game and feedback will quickly see the your posts getting traction.

Perhaps you guys are onto something that others haven't seen. Perhaps there's something not clear in the structure of the list/rules that are incorrectly being used? (as was pointed out on Facebook there was at least one error in the upgrades being applied to forts illegally). Perhaps there's some counter that other groups see that yours is not. From experience it's generally a combination of all of the above.

I really WANT your actionable feedback here- It is GOOD STUFF; Instead of walking around in huff, try working with us, k?

I know frustrations and tempers are high but making snide comments isn't helping your position (and I'm not discounting impolite reactions sent back your way either). I mean, was it really required to snark out at Graff about him being a "cheese eldar" player, whatever that even means... He's NOT your enemy and someone not agreeing isn't the same as someone attacking you.

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