Apologies, in hindsight it's poorly worded.

What I mean is that with the current options the lists usually end up the same (like when you use a cookie cutter). So basically every list has 2 gargants, 6 support options - 8 activations every time etc.

I wonder if it's worth considering a structure where Supa Stompas can be a core choice? Not as individuals but in units the same way that shadowswords can be bought in a unit of 3(core) or a single choice(support) in gaurd armies?

So for core options you could have Gargant/Great Gargant/Supa Stompa unit of some sort. Or even a crappier version like the Steam Gargant units from the Savage ork list which have the stats of a supa stompa but no shields. etc.

As for the leader bit I was referring to having a 25pt leader upgrade on gargants/stompa units. It's really hard to clear that last blast marker which impacts the odds of you doing what you want with an army that's already limited in it's action choices because they are orks.

Report up.
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=30223

The list was more fun to play with then AMTL
Still think some of the upgrades and weapons is to expensive or to "bad" but no biggies.

Oh and my builds tend to be 3 Gargants and a lot of planes all the time... I think the list needs to find a way to not make me take 4 fighta formations. (Lowering the cost of Lootas and make them fit a fortress?)

/Uven

Hi Gents

This game was in August but I finally managed some time to get it typed.
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=30277

Cheers

Mic

thanks alot!

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Hey guys!
So, theres been a few battle reports and some suggestions for the list lately. This is great since i need lots of feedback to make this list as good as possible.

I've not had time to play any epic theese last weeks so it will take som time more before i dive into all the suggestions that has been given.
There are 2 things though that i think really are pretty clear that needs to be changed.

1. The cost of the Ripper fist needs to come down to 25 points. BC weapons are hard to get to use in Epic and a slow unit like a gargant will have a hard time getting into BC with anything really. Lowering the points for the ripper fist will maybe make it more usefull.

2. The Loota formation needs to change it's composition. As it stands now the formation cannot be transported by the Battle fortress they can buy as an upograde. Thats is pretty dumb.
The easiest thing to do is to take away 1 Killa kan/Big gun from the formation so it can fit in a battle fortress. This would also warrant a point reduction of 25 points i think.
This would put the loota formation on the same cost as fighta Bombas and that might help to make it a more interesting choice for players to use.
Another idea is to remove both Killa Kans/Big Guns from the formation but i kinda like the idea of Loota Mobs always having some extra support with them. It's fits the fluff with them having access to more firepower....

Any thoughts on theese 2 ideas?

I will adress other ideas a little bit later! :-)

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I like the loota mob as it is, stops you having a fast engagement formation and keeps the lootas for nabbing objectives

I got two games in tonight, a one-sided massacre at the hands of EUK thousand sons, and a lesser massacre against NetEA Red Corsairs

I started taking pics for a batrep against the 1k sons but by the start of turn two, I had blundered my placement to such an incredible level of stupidity, pretty much everything was dead at the end of the turn

The red corsairs had a tougher time but still scored a comfortable 3-0 win...

My thoughts were that the reinforced boiler is such a neccessity for the list, I take it as standard on all the big guys, this either says something about the speed of gargants and their suitability for a list, or something else....

Nothing felt overpowered, I didnt play to the best of my ability really and against a canny player like dptdexys, a titan list is going to get taken apart 9 times out of 10, it is a fun list, but I'm beginning to feel that supa stompers are too vulnerable and I may take a second gargant instead of two supa stompers....

Will write some more tomorrow

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Just some guy

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I have been watching this for some time and found this latest post interesting in two regards;

1) Where there is a significant difference in the capabilities of two lists and especially between the two players, it might be better to play each game twice with the players swapping sides. Doing this should reduce the impact of such disparities.

2) I am increasingly concerned about the 'reinforced boiler' upgrade for a number of reasons, not least because it goes against the general principles implied in the lists to-date, that the really large WE and Titans move at 'Infantry' speed or 15cm per move. In compensation, their weapons generally have longer ranges so they can still dominate the battlefield from the centre. This in turn tends to present a very one dimensional strategy, exaggerated when using "Titan lists", which seems to be one of the reasons behind this particular upgrade.

Personally I would prefer to see the boiler upgrade removed and this particular concern addressed in other ways, eg through the inclusion of Ork mobs or possibly other Ork formations, limited to one per gargant formation.

couldn't disagree more with point#2 I'm afraid Ginger, the OGBM list is hampered by having blanket 3+ int across the board, which means shooting is much less effective as you're doubling so you can reliably move.... to compensate for that, they need to be able to move and chase the enemy down, as well as getting maximum utility from the big fellas, as the orks are unable to reliably destroy units through shooting like AMTL can, due to them having either many relatively inaccurate, low powered shots, or few very potent TK shots.... (this list really misses out on the workhorse weapons of the AMTL like the plasma cannon and TLD!)

if you look at most AMTL lists, the slow warlord barely gets a look in, the EUK list forces you to take one, and it's rare to see a second, this is of course in part due to cost and activations, but reavers are fast enough to actually catch the enemy and make it to the opposing blitz, as well as being resilient enough to survive a beating, this is even MORE essential for the gargants who can't reliably sustain fire or single move without relying on the warboss.....

I think it's pretty much a necessity for the list to remain competitive, and able to win games through methods other than sitting between the T&H objectives in the centre line and playing for a points victory...

the extra movement is a necessity so you can move, shoot a formation to cause damage/blast markers, then support a nearby engagement.... unless you're pulling this off at least once a turn (which I didn't in game 1, and did in game 2) your activations are going to be eroded

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I totally get your point; the list encourages people to major on big, slow Gargants which cannot catch opponents or get to the opposing blitz, and which have limited shooting capability. Taken to an extreme, the list would allow you to field two mega Gargants plus a Great Gargant, but with only three activations this 'army' cannot realistically expect to win anything.

This is why I respectfully suggested the inclusion of a limited number of other formation options which could achieve your aims without messing with core principles in E:A. Doing this would allow a player more activations, some faster options, air-drops, cross-fire etc. While I understand that it might dilute the aims of the list, it should make the list more playable whilst at the same time giving players more scope for strategic variations other than moving to dominate the point between three objectives.

I might add that at 15cm moves, one march and two doubles will put any one of these titans within 15cm of the opposing blitz at the end of the third turn - quite doable for even a mega gargant - unless the opponent puts sacrificial stuff in the way, where some of these smaller formations could then initiate some devastating assaults supported by one or two of the monsters (quite apart from blasting the opposition to bits) . . . . .

for all those kind of mutually supportive aims, you still need to be able to position your gargants for maximum effectiveness....

I'd thought about having a rule that in a turn you used the boiler, roll a dice at the end of the turn, on a 1 it explodes, stops functioning and starts a fire....

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^actually that's AWESOME^

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Could also randomize the boilers capability (more Orky) and instead make it add 2D6 to the movement (rolled every activation). And a roll of say 10+ causes a fire as previously described.

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My suggestion a couple of pages back was to give them the ability to choose to go "fasta fasta!!" which would give a boost of speed but risk being immobilised (say, on a 1, or 1 or 2 depending on how much extra speed you balance it against).

The 2d6 method works too, both are pretty orky although I'd suggest if your boiler blows up you've got more problems than a fire. Its also harder to build into strategy: you dont know how close is close enough, whereas if you make it a known speed boost its simply a case of evaluating the risk.


(Actually the real reason I liked the idea of overloading the engines was to you the chance to say "they cannae take it boss!" in a game)

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I am forced to agree that overloading the engines is 'Orky'. To simplify things and keep the game flowing, how about the following;
This allows the Ork player to vary the degree of risk as well as capturing the flavour described by Kyrt.