Well gents you do seem to have moved off topic some what but I'll chip in here with a couple of points.

First off, discussion is good and always listened to. I might not agree with it, but will always consider a well argued point.

Secondly, the list ended up with 35pt and 115/125pt units as we struggled to fit all the possible units into place. This is one of the reasons why we ended up with the generic Gunwagon.

I would note that 'naked' Stompas can garrison and cause a nasty shock every so often. Every list ends up with units that are not optimised, but they can create some interesting variants.

Final thing to remember is that these are tournament lists and you can propose different things for scenarios.

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Kadeton, about the stompa/supa stompa question: keep in mind that the 40k "Stompa" is a quite recent addition - at least compared to the older fluff existing before - and is really more like a Supa-Stompa or Mekboy-Gargant. Before its release, Stompas in 40k were usually played as scratch-built vehicles (so not super-heavies), so not too different from the FW Megadread.

Still, I also could see a price drop for the stompas. In another thread about the Albert Orkenstein Gargant list I mentioned that the Mega Dreads in the Stompy Onslaught are much too cheap compared to the Stompa. For 25 pts less you basically just trade one big gun for two big shootas (which have similar damage output up to 30cm, depending on the order you take). And you get the option for a cool double-Klaw CC variant. In that thread E&C justified the different point costs as Stompas are so much overcosted. While reasonable, this indicates something should be done about the poor Stompas

Also, a Mega Dread is significantly better than two Killa Kans for the same price. Therefore my vote would be to price both the Mega Dread and the Stompa at around 60 pts.


I am fine with the Gun Wagons, it's the Battlewaggons I am not so keen on. I would prefer an easy way to mechanize warbands cheaply. With BWs you get quite a lot more offensive capabilities compared to e.g. a Rhino, but the cost really adds up quickly. On the other hand, a tank without guns is probably a strange thing to demand for orks

When I played 2nd Ed 40K, I played Space Wolves and Eldar. I only got into Orks when I came back to the game in 5th - those are the only Orks I know.

It leads to a lot of weird disconnects, of which Stompas are definitely one. Battlewagons are another - the Battlewagons I'm familiar with would be AV 4+ RA (same armour/HP as a Leman Russ in 40K), armed with Tankbusta Rokkits and a Deffrolla (3+ CC) and a transport capacity of 4 units, not these pathetic Trukks that get passed off as Battlewagons in this game. I realise that's not going to change, but it certainly took some getting used to.

While a cheaper option for mechanising Warbands would be cool (you could run the Speed Freeks list with Trukks instead?) I think there's a larger problem with mechanisation in the game - namely that staying embarked in a transport vehicle is a death sentence. Having to suffer nearly double or triple casualties from every unit lost is just brutal, so everyone double-moves their tanks around and gets out for a picnic at every stop. Doing that means you can't use the vehicles for boosting your assault range (or counter-assault range), which is a huge blow to Orks.

The dominance of air assault illustrates the problem pretty well, I think - air assault offers way more mobility advantage, and is (barring unlucky crits) largely safer than trying to get a mechanised formation across the board without taking crippling losses. The fact that transports are mostly pretty expensive adds to the problem, so that it's pretty much only the lists with severely underpriced and very safe War Engine transports which can manage to field mechanised assault forces in a viable way.

Death Korps Gorgons are the perfect example - heavy armour, multiple DC, large capacity, and no "everyone dies" crit result make them ideal transports, and they're ludicrously cheap. And yet, the response of the community is to call for Gorgons to be made more expensive and/or less tough. They might need a tiny bit of that treatment, but why not look at other armies' similar transport options and make them cheaper and/or stronger instead? There might be a few more ground assault armies that suddenly become viable at that point.

(And we've come full circle to something like back on topic - the need for heavy but not necessarily fast ground transports was one of the main things I wanted to address with the list I posted.)

Well, I'm a bit late to the party, but I'll add some of my thoughts, since I have played them quite a bit over the last few years.


While I agree having both a Mega and Great gargant in the same list isn't a good option, I did run a list with a Mega Gargant and 2 Great Gargants. Surprisingly, I somehow managed to win, despite losing the Mega Gargant to the rampaging fires it suffered. Basically the Mega Gargant soaked up most of my opponents fire, allowing the other two to run amok and camp on objectives. I probably should have lost that game.

He is fragile, but I'm not sure how to fix it.


My main reason for running a gargant over two Supa Stompas is blast markers. The biggest draw back for Supa Stomnpas is the 6+ roll needed to rally once they are broken and stuck near enemy formations. In a formation of 2, once one is destroyed the other is broken and spends the rest of the game staying broken and with limited activations this is not good. Havng a gargant instead allows it to keep firing regardless of how many BM it has without being suppressed. Then when it does get broken, you only need 5+, since you get the +1 to rallying.


I used to run a pair of Supa Stompas, both with Megalobbas and 2 Soopa Guns, for a total of 14 + 2D3 BP, which is a minimum of 16 BP - the maximum band you can get on the Barrage table. This nets you an additional 4 BM on any formation you decide to shoot at, regardless of whether you do any damage. With this you can auto break some formations, while others are pretty ineffective with 5 BM, like Leman Russ companies. It's even worse when you dump it on a broken non-fearless unit. This is why Steve's Ordinatus is rightly feared.


The one thing I miss about the (very) old list, was the dumping off of grot as you stomped past an objective. I thought it was very cool and somewhat mitigated the slowness of the list.


While I think this would be awesome, I also think it would be overpowered. I played my 'Alpha Strike' list in a tournament last year, with the idea of unloading as many Grot Mega Missiles and Supa Zzap guns as I could on the first turn, before wandering over to engage what was left. If I had the option of tanking out my gargants with more TK weapons it would have been crazy.


And it is this that balances everything out. I've given up on trying to get the blitz after wasting so many turns of marching gargants for three turns, only to fail the final activation. If you can plan around it and only focus on what you need to do to get 2 VP, while keeping your opponent to 1 VP, you should have a chance.