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Push to complete a Gargant list - 2019

 Post subject: Re: Push to complete a Gargant list - 2019
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 11:30 pm 
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Ok feedback,
Today i have taken the gargants to stomp. It has been really funny.
My list.

Great gargant with ultralobba, twin soopagun and supa zapp gun
With antiair upgrade

2 gargants with megalobba, supa zaap gun and soopagun

Supastompa with 3 soopaguns
supastompa with 3 gatling kannons

4 stompas.

1ist game, versus also in development tallarn list.

The gargants are killing machines, the level of artillery was well, funny to see, every game I had 3 Imperial guard formations completely demoralize.
I seriously felt the lack of planes, (but I already expect that)
I was extremely frustrating for the imperial player, as i was insanely lucky with the saves, in 3 turn he eliminate all the shields, but yet only achieved 2 Wound on a superstompa. But well, apart from the luck, that is a lack of antititans of talland list. (Not a topic here)

Second mach, against adeptus tianicus.
Yea, gargants vs titans.

The game was, surprisingly close. The game last 6 insane turns, gargants started wining as there where a lot of warhounds, and well, warhounds are pretty volatile.
I demoralized and latter lynch the one reaver that was there by mere assault of thegreat gargant. Surprinsily, sooting was quite tricky.
By turn 3 I was winning by a huge diferent, but yet a titan killer warlord was completly fresh, and i got fire on one gargant and the gfreat gargant.
Funny enough that gargant would burn to the ashed by turn 3 XD XD XD I would be mad If I didn't laugh so much.

Conclusion on this point, soopaguns are not the best, But yet, as I said, pretty close, so zero complains in this regard.
Gargants face titans without any problem. So no problem on this regard.

I will let it rest and think on suggestions, but overall the list have my total personal approval.
we will see next month as I will see shasdowsords everywhere.

The great gargant is close to be unkillable, it is more or less ok shooting for the cost, and a beast in assaults.
The gargant is way more killable, god shooting and great in pair with a supastompa.
The supastompa is awesome, as good as a gargant shoooting, but way less resistant and surprisingly easy to be demoralize. but not the worst deal when you have courage.
The stompas have done nothing, I will have to check but i may reconsider using them in future list. Anyway I will try to give them I try. But in my opinion the are quite expensive for the cost, specially compared with the supastompa.

Anyway, next list wiht have planes and dreadnoughts, so we will see.

I will suggest more upgrades for the gargants and stompas, as well we have a lack of them. Plus potenciatly a mekboy gargant. But that would be just an attemp to make the list more interesting and atractive. For the moment the list is quite a good one. I think.


Anyways I will figure out tomorrow who to post the photos of my gargants terrorizing talllarn people and crushing their heads towards adeptus titanicus.


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 Post subject: Re: Push to complete a Gargant list - 2019
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:53 am 
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got a game in with the list last night Much Fun was had by all :)

Still wish the list had lootas but there you go....

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 Post subject: Re: Push to complete a Gargant list - 2019
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 1:47 pm 
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As pointed out by Glyn earlier in the thread, the Gatling Kannon used to be available for Great Gargants in the arm slot, so I'd propose adding one extra weapon choice:

Ultra Gatling Kannon
Location Arm
Range 45cm

8x AP5+ / AT5+ FF Arm


(Basically, the normal GK, with +2 shots). Shouldn't be too terrifying.

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 Post subject: Re: Push to complete a Gargant list - 2019
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Increased DC option will be dropped the next time I update the list.

I would just have a gatling option rather than ultra.

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 Post subject: Re: Push to complete a Gargant list - 2019
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 3:02 pm 
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I'm fine with the DC option going entirely. Fiddly to make it not an auto-buy or a never-buy, while also scaling in utility against the different WE sizes.

Standard Gatling inferior to the other GG arm weapons on stats as current, not worth taking surely?

I appreciate it's a late consideration to a largely settled list now!

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 Post subject: Re: Push to complete a Gargant list - 2019
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:00 am 
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I'd rather see a bit more granularity in the weapon loadouts for the different classes of gargant/stompa, maybe remove the gatling kannon and grot missile options from the supa stompa?

I think the DC upgrade isn't too potent if limited to gargants/great gargants only, they already have bags of DC, a couple more isn't going to ruin the list (725pts for a 9-11DC gargant isn't too painful), whereas potentially having multiple 7DC war engines for 375pts each is a much harder pill to swallow

I'm just concerned that with all the streamlining of options from the older list, a lot of the character will be lost

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 Post subject: Re: Push to complete a Gargant list - 2019
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:50 am 
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Great Gargants had gatling arm weapons in past editions (and likely will have them as an option again if/when AT versions come out). Why unnecessarily invalidate weapons fits of older player’s models that could be glued together and painted? If the Great Gargant has 5 better versions of Gargant weapons for its arms it’s not that much of a stretch to add one more to complete the set surely?

What’s not orky about rolling bucket loads of dice with poor to hit rolls? 8 x shots or maybe even 10 x shots at AT5+/AP5+ would balance better compared to the other Great Gargant arm weapons, particularly as they have a lower 45cm range and will often be doubling or occasionally assaulting. I find the masses of MW boring with Ork Gargants and masses of less powerful gatling attacks seems more orky and more similar to how many of 40K ork units attack.


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 Post subject: Re: Push to complete a Gargant list - 2019
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:59 pm 
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It is not exactly the place, but i played a 8k game of AMTL vs OGBM and put a battle report of it here on Taccom. The problem as it was two years ago it was made with Mordoten's version instead of this one, but there are some parts which apply this one too.

https://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd ... 84&t=34230

First, there is a single weapon which stood up amongst the rest by a large margin: the Mega Lobba. I expected it to stand out of the rest as in theory taking a single one per Titan makes wonders even if two or three is not as good, but it surpassed my expectations by far. It kept breaking things around ( one Warlord was broke on each turn by only them and one shoot from a set Soopagunz even though it was all the time hidden from any Ork ground unit) and was the one who did the most work as the loses on shields and DCs on the Imperial side were low even though they were on the open for most of the time. Overall they did, just by themselves:
9 BMs and 2 shields on the first turn and 11 BMS and 2 shield on the second, by only five Mega Lobbas on the first turn and six on the second, not counting the BMs for coming under fire.
Soopagunz added 6 more BMs, one or two shields and one DC. The rest of the army added 11 shields and 12 Dcs down, with almost every DC down from TK weapons.

While they did almost no damage as they were hitting on 6+ and 7+, Mega Lobbas took out more BMs than the rest of the army combined, broke formations five times almost by themselves and the rest of the weapons only one more, with only five/six weapons from the thirty Titan weapons and thirty-six Big Guns in total which got to fire.
The Imperial player told me after the battle that he felt a bit helpless, as i was pouring 2-4 BMs with each of those activations, which he could not avoid with cover, as it is a one third change of 2BMs no matter the penalizers for shooting, which make it, from an Ork point of view a Disrupt weapon, as it puts a BM on a 5+ instead of the 6+/7+ which is the normal if it were Disrupt, even if there is more dices thrown. He told me also that this was a concern from the times of Nealhunt's version of the lists, which surprises me. It makes me wonder if we were to have put a Mega Lobba on each Gargant on play or if we were not playing against a Fearless army what would have happened, as they would have killed the enemy by pure BM onslaught.

The Leader upgrade felt useful as so much fire was raining down, but as it was more than usual getting back to zero BMs was hard.
Supa-Stompas felt a bit underwhelming, but that's normal as Soopagunz work worse against this kind of list and they do not have anything else save for the Gaze.
The missiles continue to be an auto-take for me as they do more damage with both than a single Deathstrike for the same cost, most of the times are better than taking a Deth Kannon, and they are a lot more valuable than in a Imperial army, so now that some years have passed I see the change on this Gargant list on the missiles as a good one which also fits Orks better.
The Orks felt quite low on numbers compared with the Imperials from a Ork point of view which is a pity. Imperials can take lots of smaller Titans and even two per formation but Gargants can only take a few Supa-Stompa Gargants and never more than one per formation which feels both strange, and out of place for the faction.

The Imperial side reported that felt quite helpless against so many DCs, but from the Ork side we felt something similar, as we only got a single Battle Titan close to destruction, another at half, and destroyed a Warhound. If analyzing the damages, the Imperials lost 14 DCs and 15 shields and the Orks lost a lot more with 20Dcs and 34 shields. Probably that feeling came from so many formations broken by Mega Lobbas which halted his advance on both flanks but not on the center as there was no Mega Lobba there.

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 Post subject: Re: Push to complete a Gargant list - 2019
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:38 am 
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Thanks for the feedback, if old game. The Mega Lobba is something that I am watching as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Push to complete a Gargant list - 2019
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:19 pm 
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I have some questions to know what to test next on this version of the list:

Has there been any development on the list in the last 12 months or so? Any planned changes either? I remember that was posted here that several more games with this list were played but not reported so i was wondering if the same has happened lately.

Also, something that i would like to have clear. Is there any issues with multiple Supa-Stompas on a formation? Are they considered too good or problematic and need testing? I do not understand why the smaller Gargants are so limited in this list, more than on Ghazgkull's even, and on the other side the other Titan lists, both Uk and NetEA get to play with pairs of the smallest Titans. If any they should have the option for three, instead of singles. For gameplay i do not get it either so i suppose there has to be something I am missing here.

Has there been anything else to test? There was concerns with the double Great Gargant list, but i think it is easy to slow down one and kill anything else besides the two of them. I am more concerned at how the support besides Titans are barely taken so i will test that too, but that is an issue of both NetEA and UK AMTL lists too. It is a Titan list but i feel that there has to be something else taken regularly besides planes and Titans.

Tiny-Tim wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, if old game. The Mega Lobba is something that I am watching as well.


With pleasure.

From what i thought about it since that game, i think that the best solution would be to give the Mega-Lobba 5BPs. That would get rid of the Disrupt on the first weapon taken, give a small boost on the second but it is ok as Soopagunz are best at two too, but the third one is not much better than two, but taking three till now was never much good to begin with neither on Soopagunz and Mega-Lobbas, even less now as it would be way better to take a Supa-Zzap. Other numbers for it like 4-8-12 BPs are not as good as the other weapons.

The other option i thought could work were, i f i remember well:
- 45cm range: puts the weapon in an unfavorable situation and does not solve the main issue, even if it is down-powered.
- Use spacecraft's template, at 2-4-6 BPs: looks Orky with so big explosions or barrages and gets rid of the Disrupt, but maybe too good and requires extra rules. Would be the only weapon i can think of that would let the Ultra Lobbas continue to exist without the Disrupt problem.
There were others but i dismissed them quickly.

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