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[EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2

 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:15 pm 
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Ohh, crap, I thought I posted V0.4 a couple months ago. It's on my work laptop so I'll get it uploaded tomorrow (yay for working Sundays).

I incorporated just about all the things discussed previously and nuked most of the typos (and probably added in some more :( ).


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:03 pm 
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Playtested LatD vs MikeT on vassal. Army list and activations here, Mike has some screenshots to come. My marines got utterly smashed and we called the game for a LatD win at the end of turn 2.

marines EUK
ncompertus, 3000 POINTS
Codex Marines (170711)
==================================================

TERMINATOR [400]
4 Terminator units, Chaplain

THUNDERHAWK [200]
1 Thunderhawk gunship

TACTICAL [475]
6 Tactical units plus Transport, Hunter, Supreme Commander

DEVASTATOR [325]
4 Devastator Units plus Transport, Hunter

SCOUT [175]
4 Scouts plus Transport, Razorback LAS

SCOUT [175]
4 Scouts plus Transport, Razorback LAS

PREDATORS [350]
2 2 x Predator Annihilators, Hunter

WARHOUND TITAN [275]
1 Warhound Titan

WARHOUND TITAN [275]
1 Warhound Titan

THUNDERBOLTS [150]
2 Thunderbolt Fighters

LAND SPEEDER [200]
5 Land Speeder


LATD
STIGMATUS COVEN [550] Daemonic Pact, (Nurgle)
Arch Heritic Demagogue, 5 Cultists, 6 Mutants, Chaos Spawn, Plague Tower

STIGMATUS COVEN [310] Daemonic Pact, (Tzeentch)
Demagogue, 5 Cultists, 6 Mutants, 6 Land Transporter, Technical

STIGMATUS COVEN [310] Daemonic Pact, (Tzeentch)
Demagogue, 5 Cultists, 6 Mutants, 6 Land Transporter, Technical

STIGMATUS COVEN [310] Daemonic Pact, (Slaanesh)
Demagogue, 5 Cultists, 6 Mutants, 6 Land Transporter, Technical

NURGLE CONTAGION TOWERS [300]
4 Contagion Towers

HELLFIRE CANNONS [200]
4 Hellfire Cannons

HELLFIRE CANNONS [200]
4 Hellfire Cannons

TZEENTCH DOOMWINGS [150]
3 Doomwings

SLAANESH SCOUT TITANS [275]
Questor

Plague Zombies! [175]

DAEMON POOL [250]
2 Greater Daemon 100

8 Lesser Daemon 150


----


turn 1, marine init
marine> scouts double, BM cannons
LATD> contagions sustain on preds, 3BM
marines> devs double onto cathedral
LATD> doomwings enter CAP
marines> double scouts, hellfire overwatch and pop the razorback and a rhino for 3BM
LATD> questor singles and shoots the overwatched scouts and wipes them out
marines> preds single and knock shields off the questor
LATD> white coven summons keeper of secrets and a LD, doubles and shoots scouts killing all the vehicles
marines> warhound doubles, fires plasma and VMB at questor missing with everything
LATD> nurgle coven summons great unclean one and 2 LD, doubles, shooting preds for 1 kill
marines> speeders single and shoot nurgle coven plauge tower for no hits
LATD> hellfires double on re-roll, kill a predator to break the formation
tactical> tacticals double and kill one land transporter! 7 activations in and marines get a kill!
LATD> grey coven doubles over towards devs, killing a rhino
marines> warhound singles to shoot grey coven … 1 hit, 1 kill, 2BM
LATD> yellow coven doubles and kills 2 scouts, breaking them
marines> tbolts ground attacks yellow coven for 2 kills
marines> thawk ground attacks yellow coven, doomwings cap, hunter misses, doomwings miss, 2 kills with the flackwagon making its save for a second time

all disengage, +1BM for doomwings and tbolts, +2 for thawk
scouts, hellcannons, yellow formation, white formation fail to rally



turn 2 zombies teleport in encircling preds and getting on marine blitz, 1BM
marine init

marines> warhound singles away from covens to put 3BM on grey coven
marines> devs sustain on grey coven for 5 kills leaving grey coven 1 off breaking
LATD> yellow coven summons 2 LD and wipe out the land speeders on the bridge in an engagement
LATD> nurgle coven engages tactical BTS, killing all but 1 stand
marines> warhound sustains, killing 3, breaking yellow coven
LATD> doomwings CAP
LATD> zombies engage preds and wipe them out
marines> tbolts ground attack hellfires for 1 kill
marines> thawk and terminators get shot out of the sky on a crit
LATD> white coven doubles to shoot lone BTS stand but miss
LATD> questor fails to activate
LATD> hellcannons double and pop a dev and hunter
LATD> hellcanons marshal and BM warhound

Game called here as LatD win. Would have been 3–0 LatD minimum if we'd done turn 3, most likely 5–0.

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Last edited by Apocolocyntosis on Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:05 pm 
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question from play test: why are hellfire cannons FF 4+? that seems pretty strong for a vehicle with a single, fixed position, slow, gun.

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:50 pm 
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isn't it a belching inferno of a Khornate super sized shotgun?

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:57 pm 
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not as it is statted at the moment, no. It's got 75cm range 4+ MW, so not so much shotgun as rifle.

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:57 pm 
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Hey guy,
Nice work. I am watching this thread as I am currently building a LatD army. It will take me a while but I also don't like traitor element.

C


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:40 am 
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Just a thought bubble, I don't know how locked in most of your list is at this point, but I just thought I'd mention it anyway...

I understand dropping the Imperial formations, and focusing the list on Daemon Engines. The two elements sat awkwardly together in the old list, both in terms of theme and list building. But it seems a shame to remove the Imperial element entirely, much of the appeal of the Lost and the Damned is to represent ancient worlds long lost to the Imperium, and now it seems hard to recreate that flavour.

So I was wondering if covens could perhaps have an option to include an Imperial vehicle, just to show a bit of that old history. So while most of the old machines might have been destroyed or broken down, a warband might still go in to battle with an ancient Leman Russ, or rely on a little fire support from 'old faithful', a single Griffon.

So perhaps each coven could be able to take as an upgrade a single Leman Russ, a Leman Russ Demolisher, a Hellhound, a Griffon or a Hydra?

It would also provide a means of getting some air protection in the list without having to invent a new unit with the Technical.

The concern, I think, would be that a lot of players would just ignore the other options and just take Hydras, would which lose a lot of the flavour and just make it feel like a backdoor way to get Hydra air protection in to the list. This could perhaps be handled by making Hydras quite expensive, while other units (especially Griffons) could be quite cheap.


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:21 am 
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But the old list is still around for thoose things...

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:17 am 
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Also there is nothing to stop you proxying an old leman russ, griffon, hydra or chimera as a land transport, technical, daemon engine or similar :) with some suitable conversion work most imperial artillery makes excellent contagion engines, super heavies work as plague towers etc :)

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:19 am 
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Double post


Last edited by jeremy on Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:27 am 
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kyussinchains wrote:
Also there is nothing to stop you proxying an old leman russ, griffon, hydra or chimera as a land transport, technical, daemon engine or similar :) with some suitable conversion work most imperial artillery makes excellent contagion engines, super heavies work as plague towers etc :)


That is a good point, and possibly what I’ll look to do for technical (though I’m a little worried about opponents forgetting they’re not hydras and thinking the AA bubble is bigger than it really is). Doesn’t really help with getting Leman Russes and Griffons in as old Imperial relics, though.

I think though, this touches on a bigger issue about this list that I can’t quite figure out – is this list a whole new type of list, or is it seen as an update to the Stigmatus list?

It seems there’s a bit of a loop going on. In another thread I asked about the outdated daemon prices in the Stigmatus list, and you said it wasn’t being worked on because the focus is on LatD and the Vraksian Traitors lists. Okay, that’s fair enough, and to be honest I quite like the idea of splitting the Stigmatus list in to stronger themed lists. But then when I asked about leaving some Imperial elements in the LatD list, I’m told that if you want Imperial stuff to use the Stigmatus list.

If this is a whole new list, then shouldn’t the Stigmatus list get updated? Most of the good work done to this list (daemon prices, plague towers taken as upgrades, making a daemon prince your arch-heretic) could be directly ported over. But if this is an update meant to replace the Stigmatus list, then conversations about what Imperial elements are left can’t be passed off by pushing that back on the Stigmatus list.


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:39 pm 
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I was under the impression that the Vraks-list was for more imperial vs. imperial stuff? Or maybe that´s too much over into that corner for you? I would go with using kitbashed IG-vehicles as proxies, as kyuss said. A degenerated Hydra design would not be as efficient as the real thing (add rust and remove a barrel or two, use 'technical' stats, etc...)

I never liked the medieval nurgle engines and kitbashed some IG-vehicles instead, and lots of others on the forum have too.

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:59 pm 
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Nitpick wrote:
I was under the impression that the Vraks-list was for more imperial vs. imperial stuff? Or maybe that´s too much over into that corner for you? I would go with using kitbashed IG-vehicles as proxies, as kyuss said. A degenerated Hydra design would not be as efficient as the real thing (add rust and remove a barrel or two, use 'technical' stats, etc...)


Yeah, Vraks is too much the other way. I want to field lots of daemon engines first and foremost.

And it isn't just about hydras. I've got some chinaforge hydras around here, and I'll think I'll stick the turrets on some flatbeds, that should work nicely.

I just liked the narrative of a world that fell from the Imperium a long time ago, and so while it's now full of daemon engines and crazy cultists, there's also signs of the old history in there. It would also mean the units themselves were, in a weird way, quite different to Imperial units, as instead of uniform mechanised or armoured formations you could build these combination units that were more like warbands.

Anyway, it was just an idea, thrown in long after this list has gone through a lot of playtesting. It doesn't sound like its anything anyone has been calling for, so it's cool.

Quote:
I never liked the medieval nurgle engines and kitbashed some IG-vehicles instead, and lots of others on the forum have too.


Yeah, I'm a bit undecided on plague engines at this point. I'm going to start looking at what the rest of you guys have done in a month or two, when that's my next project (right now I'm putting together daemons and zombies :) )


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:02 pm 
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You could always fan-list the concept and see where it goes too.

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:14 pm 
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jeremy wrote:
[

I just liked the narrative of a world that fell from the Imperium a long time ago, and so while it's now full of daemon engines and crazy cultists, there's also signs of the old history in there. It would also mean the units themselves were, in a weird way, quite different to Imperial units, as instead of uniform mechanised or armoured formations you could build these combination units that were more like warbands.


One thing that I liked about the Epic 40K list meta game, is how it was focused on creating somewhat battered unique companies. I like your idea and to be honest, I can see nothing that would stop you from realizing it using the current Redux list and creative proxying. The number of lads/ladies/things in a coven roughly matches an IG co, even! (after all, after a few hundred years, the standard template is bound to be currupted. What else is chaos good for?) There are many things I struggle with in EA, the exponential list growth is one. All good stories do not merit new lists methinks (Though I do think that the split of LatD into two is beneficial, so I have arguably not decided if this is good or bad myself.)

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