Hi all,

Did briefly try looking for this answer, but couldn't find one. Such an old, basic question I'm sure it's already come up previously.

As Great Unclean Ones have DC4 and the other three have DC3, how do people cope with the summoning differences?

The rules say they do not heal any damage when returned to the summoning pool. So, if a DC4 Great Unclean One suffers 1DC of damage, and then has to return to the pool, it can be summoned on a subsequent turn as a full-strength Bloodthirster, is that right? Similarly if a greater daemon had already been summoned as a Lord of Change, suffered no damage but subsequently returned to the pool, if the player then wanted to summon it as a Great Unclean One, it would have to come back as a DC3 Great Unclean One even though no damage had been caused.

Or do people play it so that greater daemons come back with the same damage inflicted? I.e. a Great Unclean One that suffered 2DC of damage, leaving it with 2 remaining, could come back as a 1DC Keeper of Secrets.
This, however, would mean that a Great Unclean One that had suffered 3DC of damage already could not be summoned again as anything other than a Great Unclean One.

There seem to be disadvantages either way to me. Or do people just avoid the issue by never playing Great Unclean Ones with any other kind of greater daemon, poor lonely souls . . .

Personally, I'd say they're purchased as undefined, but once summoned they're defined in affiliation - i.e. it's not a Great Unclean One until you summon it, but it is once it goes back to the pool. Ditto for all other daemons.

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So you mean both lesser and greater daemons, once summoned, would be unavailable to formations of any other affiliation?

This has been discussed before, and if I recall the debate correctly, I think daemons are undefined, even upon return to the Daemon Pool. A Bloodthirster with damage can still return to the game as a Keeper of Secrets with the same amount of DC. However, due to the difference in DC between the Great Unclean One and the other daemons, a damaged Great Unclean One remains affiliated in the Pool. This is the solution that causes the least confusion and with the smallest restriction to what the rules at first suggests.

/Fredmans

That's how I'd do it. It may not be the general opinion, but it's simple, even-handed, and even encourages people to not try having a bunch of different kinds of formation in their army.

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The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

The rule:

Summoned units remain on the battlefield until the end phase of the turn in
which they are summoned. In the end of the rally phase, after formations
have attempted to rally, all summoned units in the formation are removed
from the board and placed back into the Daemon Pool unless the formation
has a unit with Daemonic Focus. Greater Daemons that are returned to the
Daemon Pool keep the same DC they had when they left the battlefield. They
do not heal back to full DC, so when summoned again they will have that
same DC.

A closer reading tells me that there is no problem. A Greater Daemon with 1DC damage, will return to the game as a greater daemon with 1DC damage, irregardless of faction. The only limit is that there may not be two greater daemons from the same faction on table. The only weird situation that can arise is if a Great Unclean One with 1DC left would be returned to the Daemon Pool. Then it could only be re-summoned as a GUO since all other options would see it removed from play. The wording is a bit vague, though, since it switches between a DC-left and damage-received perspective.

Having looked at the rules again...it will return with "that same DC". So if a Demon leaves at DC2, it can be summoned again at DC2. It isn't summoned again with X amount of damage. It's summoned at the same DC it had when it left the table.

So a Great Unclean One at DC1 could be summoned again as something else with DC1. As suggested, you could resummon a GUO that was at DC3 as a full-strength other Greater Daemon. The (extra) weird anomaly would be that if you resummoned any other Greater Daemons as Great Unclean Ones they'd all start at DC3.

Though I still think my solution is the least ridiculous.

_________________
The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

I'd suggest the rule needs an Errata to account for the GUO, in some manner.

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