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Daemon World List

 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:26 pm 
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The army has barely any shooting, everything is assault based.

How does the army place BMs in order to secure assaults?

How does the army get into assault range, if the opponent plays defensively?

Suggestion: allow allies to be taken from other Chaos lists?

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:14 am 
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LordotMilk wrote:
The army has barely any shooting, everything is assault based.

How does the army place BMs in order to secure assaults?

How does the army get into assault range, if the opponent plays defensively?

Suggestion: allow allies to be taken from other Chaos lists?


I dont know whether you have read the rest of the thread, but the lack of shooting / BM placement is part of the design - armies are themed just as much by what they dont have as what they do.

The army has to make use of its speed (support formations) and the Warp Rift to close quickly with the enemy.
The other Chaos lists were removed for good reason, and I would be hesitant to bring them back in.
Bear in mind that the list is still extremely developmental.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:16 am 
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LordotMilk wrote:
How does the army get into assault range, if the opponent plays defensively?


1. Teleport dammit!
2. Summon Lotsa Daemons
3. Create a special rule that effects BM and their impact on a unit of desperate homicidal maniacs

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:18 am 
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Something may need changing about the lack of ranged fire / lack of teleport.

I am having a think :P

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:33 am 
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Is the eldar gate style warp rift the only 'warp deployment' method that has been tested?

Other options might include teleport, as has been mentioned, or a warp rift 'spacecraft' – eg a giant rift appears in the sky one turn and daemons pour out of it onto the planet below.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:57 am 
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frogbear wrote:
LordotMilk wrote:
How does the army get into assault range, if the opponent plays defensively?


1. Teleport dammit!
2. Summon Lotsa Daemons
3. Create a special rule that effects BM and their impact on a unit of desperate homicidal maniacs



Yes ;)

That's what I mean.

@ApoloXXX: I understand the list design. My intent was not to change it, but as it is the list has no chance of accomplishing its design unless the opponent actually voluntarily rushes into it...

Perhapy you could go and take a look at the Harlequin thread to get some ideas of multiple teleport, multiple gate armies. Especially the original list.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:19 am 
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Maybe add a gate to the altars? As long as you don't allow in and out tricks like the necrons should be ok.

I'd also point out that as lots of this army is speed 15cm then it can effectively garrrison most of the army and start, at worst, nearly 45cm into the table.


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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:21 am 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
Is the eldar gate style warp rift the only 'warp deployment' method that has been tested?

Other options might include teleport, as has been mentioned, or a warp rift 'spacecraft' – eg a giant rift appears in the sky one turn and daemons pour out of it onto the planet below.


Self-planetfall was something I was looking into to provide a way of teleporting, with at least some risks involved (scatter etc), or possibly the looking into giving some formations the ability to teleport (flamers?)


LordotMilk wrote:

@ApoloXXX: I understand the list design. My intent was not to change it, but as it is the list has no chance of accomplishing its design unless the opponent actually voluntarily rushes into it...

Perhapy you could go and take a look at the Harlequin thread to get some ideas of multiple teleport, multiple gate armies. Especially the original list.


I agree that as it stands the list would struggle against a castled up opoonent sat on OW. I agree that the list needs work - what aspects of the harlequin list do you think would be useful?

------------------

Things to address:
Ability to popcorn - 18 max activations in 3 k with half of them fearless!
Too many, too cheap, support fms.
Ranged fire
Teleport / planetfall / multi gates
Stats/cost - Fiends, Spawn, Chariots.
Are these useful for their points?
How can they be differentiated from other units?
Spawn probably need to go up to 50pts.
Lack of big expensive fm - titan equivalent

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:26 am 
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I still think the ally section should contain a generic SM and a generic cultist list.

Especially if the list is to be a Daemon incursion.

It would ease out a lot of rough spots in one easy design choice.

@Novemberterain: I was thinking of the different gate rules, the objective holding rules, and the multiple teleport formations there was in the first iteration of the list.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:34 am 
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LordotMilk wrote:
I still think the ally section should contain a generic SM and a generic cultist list.

Especially if the list is to be a Daemon incursion.

It would ease out a lot of rough spots in one easy design choice.

@Novemberterain: I was thinking of the different gate rules, the objective holding rules, and the multiple teleport formations there was in the first iteration of the list.


I dont think it would necessarily suddenly solve lots of design issues, and I think it would dilute the theme of the list. Dont even get me started on the name! :P

Can you PM me the link to the harlequin list - I can only find 2.0

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:47 am 
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novemberrain wrote:
Self-planetfall was something I was looking into to provide a way of teleporting, with at least some risks involved (scatter etc), or possibly the looking into giving some formations the ability to teleport (flamers?)


Problem w/ self-planetfall if it's an army wide ability is that it takes a bloody long time. Imagine plotting 12 drops before the game even begins, then measuring them on the table, scattering them, etc. Epic is usually more elegant than that.

novemberrain wrote:
I agree that as it stands the list would struggle against a castled up opoonent sat on OW.

That's fine because armies that castle up in OW do really, really badly in the GTS.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:57 am 
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I have to say that I love the idea of a Warp Rift "spacecraft". It sounds easier to resolve ingame than self-planetfall too


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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:09 am 
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Ulrik wrote:
I have to say that I love the idea of a Warp Rift "spacecraft". It sounds easier to resolve ingame than self-planetfall too


So have a spacecraft that allows teleports, or planetfalls? I agree that it does sound cool :P

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:56 am 
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novemberrain wrote:
Ulrik wrote:
I have to say that I love the idea of a Warp Rift "spacecraft". It sounds easier to resolve ingame than self-planetfall too


So have a spacecraft that allows teleports, or planetfalls? I agree that it does sound cool :P


I'd go for planetfall. You need something that planetfalls and transports daemons, like a Space Marine drop pod (probably without anything like the Deathwind attack).


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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:24 am 
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Hi about the idea Wh40k manages it:
Select half of the army's formations to use teleport. The other half has to start the game already on the board.

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