Tactical Command
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[Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.7
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=23250		 Page 4 of 8
Author:  mordoten [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4
The force organization should be as the AMTL, 2 lesser titan choices for every battle titan choice, 1 support slot for every battle or lesser titan.

Right now the force organisation is to free.
Author:  mordoten [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4
Also i think the epithets should be way simpler. Just 1 thing should chanfe which each one, not 2-3 things. Less is more.
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4
MikeT wrote:
AMTL Titan Legion lists have Reaver/Warlord Close Combat Weapons being EA+3, TK(D3). I'd suggest using that and a lesser variant for Warhound sized titans.

Maybe try out variants (swap TK(D3) for macro but add in first strike as an example) as well.


The Admech one is TK(D3) (and 25pts), but i looked at it's performance across 5 common enemies - ork boyz, guardsmen in cover, rhinos, leman russ and against a warhound. The chaos titan's have slightly better CC stats too, so 3 attacks be them against the softer targets weigh heavier then the Admech's edge against the heavier ones.

I would like to keep special rules off the base weapons - that's what the epithets are for, and it's what distiguishes the list from the Admech Legion.
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4
mordoten wrote:
The force organization should be as the AMTL, 2 lesser titan choices for every battle titan choice, 1 support slot for every battle or lesser titan.

Right now the force organisation is to free.


Could you draw up an example list to show me what you mean?

One of the things on my plan to do is draw up a bunch of extreme 3k lists to see how far I can push things - max DC, max shots, max Hitpoints, max area ect
Author:  MikeT [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4
madd0ct0r wrote:
MikeT wrote:
AMTL Titan Legion lists have Reaver/Warlord Close Combat Weapons being EA+3, TK(D3). I'd suggest using that and a lesser variant for Warhound sized titans.

Maybe try out variants (swap TK(D3) for macro but add in first strike as an example) as well.


The Admech one is TK(D3) (and 25pts), but i looked at it's performance across 5 common enemies - ork boyz, guardsmen in cover, rhinos, leman russ and against a warhound. The chaos titan's have slightly better CC stats too, so 3 attacks be them against the softer targets weigh heavier then the Admech's edge against the heavier ones.

I would like to keep special rules off the base weapons - that's what the epithets are for, and it's what distiguishes the list from the Admech Legion.



I'm literally looking at the most recent AMTL3.22 list and the titan CC weapon is EA+3 TK(D3).
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4
MikeT wrote:
madd0ct0r wrote:
MikeT wrote:
AMTL Titan Legion lists have Reaver/Warlord Close Combat Weapons being EA+3, TK(D3). I'd suggest using that and a lesser variant for Warhound sized titans.

Maybe try out variants (swap TK(D3) for macro but add in first strike as an example) as well.


The Admech one is TK(D3) (and 25pts), but i looked at it's performance across 5 common enemies - ork boyz, guardsmen in cover, rhinos, leman russ and against a warhound. The chaos titan's have slightly better CC stats too, so 3 attacks be them against the softer targets weigh heavier then the Admech's edge against the heavier ones.

I would like to keep special rules off the base weapons - that's what the epithets are for, and it's what distiguishes the list from the Admech Legion.



I'm literally looking at the most recent AMTL3.22 list and the titan CC weapon is EA+3 TK(D3).


Sorry, typo - I did test at EA3+ TK(D3). For Chaos warlord and Chaos reaver (with their better cc stat), across a typical range of enemy's*, it's equivalent to no TK but EA(3.48) and EA(3.66). That's for a 25pt weapon, and a speed boost is availble via an epithet so rounding down in both cases seems fair.

The macro weapon part of the TK is much more important in an all comers situation, and then we're comparing an increased probability of hitting (from Chaos CC stat) vs an increased probability of damage (by preventing the armour save).
Mathematically, in this case they're close to equivalent.

*of course, if you only look at WE targets, yeah, the admech one is far superior, but with a slow titan it's rare you'll have the chance to pick your target. Speed, base size and range were taken into account in the balancing model.
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4
Version 0.7

Made the changes to CC weapons.
Removed Vicious Epithet, I'm just not convinced it could be balanced.

Swapped the extra guns for First strike in the Corrupted Epithet (mostly to save table space)

Bunch of reformatting. Many thanks to Apoc for his guidance.

Still to do: finish adding in everything to the ref sheets and reformat them. Might have to wait until I have time. Everything is in the compilation, except the Great Spawn, which can be fond in the Stygian Demon Engines List.
Author:  mordoten [ Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4
madd0ct0r wrote:
mordoten wrote:
The force organization should be as the AMTL, 2 lesser titan choices for every battle titan choice, 1 support slot for every battle or lesser titan.

Right now the force organisation is to free.


Could you draw up an example list to show me what you mean?

One of the things on my plan to do is draw up a bunch of extreme 3k lists to see how far I can push things - max DC, max shots, max Hitpoints, max area ect



I mean tjat each big titan should allow 2 lesser titans. Each battle and lesser titan opens up one support slot. Titan lists should not be able ti field too many small non-WE units. Fielding big ass warmachines of death and destruction has to come with a deawback. That drawback should be activation rate.
Author:  Mard [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4
Has there been any movement on this list guys?
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4
None. the Bristol gaming group fragmented a little, and I've not had time to travel an hour each way to get a game in for a year now.

If you'd like to take the list forward, please do so.
Author:  daemonkin [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4
Will try and get a game in soon with this list. Just love titan lists.

D.
Author:  daemonkin [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4
Does anyone find the 4+ initiative a bit restrictive when attempting to activate units? More than likely unless they are in BTB they will either fail to activate and either move or fire. I understand this is to represent the ramshackle nature of the horde. Just thoughts on looking at the list but will get a game or 2 in over the next few weeks.

D.
Author:  Matty_C [ Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4
madd0ct0r wrote:
Version 0.7.


I can't find this.
0.6 is the PDF in the first post.
Have I missed it somewhere?
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.7
fixed. not sure what happneed there.
Author:  Matty_C [ Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.7
Thanks for that madd0ct0r.
Loving the idea of a single use 42AP5+ weapon. My Legio Mortis will try that one out some day!
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