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BL Review - aircraft
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=23092		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Steve54 [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  BL Review - aircraft
At the moment we have

Hellblades 3 for 200 6+ save 2 x 15cm AP4+/AT5+/AA5+ FxF

Helltalons 2 for 250 5+ save 15cm 2 BP FxF
45cm AT4+/AA4+ FxF
45cm AP5+/AT6+ FxF

Harbinger 1 for 425 4+ save 30cm AP4+/AT6+/AA5+ Fxf
15cm AP4+/AT6+/AA5+ right arc
15cm AP4+/AT6+/AA5+ left arc
15cm 6BP IC FxF

Devastation - 150 pts 3BP MW
pinpoint MW2+ TK(d3)
Despoiler - 250pts 3BP MW
3 x pinpoint MW2+ Tk)d3) slow+steady


Any issues with these? (preferably from gameplay)
Author:  pixelgeek [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - aircraft
Spacecraft are fine. Never used the Harbinger and probably never will as I find it butt ugly.

The only issue I have are the Hellblades. They are very, very fragile and not really effective.

How about making the formation be expandable to up to 6 models so you can build a force that has some bite?
Author:  Simulated Knave [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - aircraft
They're not particularly more fragile than Thunderbolts. I wonder if their limited range is exacerbating it.

In the new Imperial Armour: Apocalypse, they have ordinary autocannon, not Reaper Autocannon. That'd expand their range to 30cm in exchange for a downgrade in firepower (2x AP5+/AT6+/AA6+?)

Also, they're listed as AT6+ in the compendium. FYI.
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - aircraft
pixelgeek wrote:
Never used the Harbinger and probably never will as I find it butt ugly.

Likewise- it is awful looking.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - aircraft
Simulated Knave wrote:
They're not particularly more fragile than Thunderbolts. I wonder if their limited range is exacerbating it.

In the new Imperial Armour: Apocalypse, they have ordinary autocannon, not Reaper Autocannon. That'd expand their range to 30cm in exchange for a downgrade in firepower (2x AP5+/AT6+/AA6+?)

Also, they're listed as AT6+ in the compendium. FYI.


Actually they where never armed with Reaper Autocannons but always with two Twin Autocannons. At least in the FW publications.
Author:  pixelgeek [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - aircraft
Simulated Knave wrote:
They're not particularly more fragile than Thunderbolts. I wonder if their limited range is exacerbating it.


It doesn't help :-)

Quote:
In the new Imperial Armour: Apocalypse, they have ordinary autocannon, not Reaper Autocannon. That'd expand their range to 30cm in exchange for a downgrade in firepower (2x AP5+/AT6+/AA6+?)


There was a lot of discussion about what their stats should be when they came out.

Has there been a definitive set of stats from FW or GW regarding them?
Author:  Simulated Knave [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - aircraft
If what BlackLegion says is true, I'd recommend switching them to have normal autocannons.

3 Hellblades are 200 points right now. If they had two ordinary autocannon, I'd say you could do two for 175 (or even 150).
Author:  BlackLegion [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - aircraft
The Thunderbolt has the exactly same weapons AND Twin Lascannons. But only has a mere 15cm AP4+/AA5+ shot (plus the Multilaser which are the Wh40k TwinLascannons).
Author:  Simulated Knave [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - aircraft
The Thunderbolt not making sense is, to some extent, the Thunderbolt's problem. :P
Author:  frogbear [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  BL Review - aircraft
I find the aircraft fine.

Hellblades are awesome - better than 2 thunderbolts. To say otherwise i would think that either:

1. They are not being used right
2. They are being used in a weird meta group

For 200 points, they most likley more than make up for thier points.

I could see the Harbinger drop to 400 points.

I have rarely used the helltalons.

The larger spacecraft is probably not worth the 3rd turn show especially when an army like marines can bump them - so may never be seen in a tournament.
Author:  pixelgeek [ Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  BL Review - aircraft
frogbear wrote:
I To say otherwise i would think that either:


What exactly is the point of this?

Stick to commenting on your own experience and don't try to analyse other people or suggest that they are playing incorrectly. It's rude and really of no use unless you are looking to start some sort of argument.
Author:  frogbear [ Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  BL Review - aircraft
Sorry dude. Did not mean it like that.

For their points they are exceptional.
Author:  Jaggedtoothgrin [ Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - aircraft
i've never had problems with the hellblades. i thought i would, but i havent.

i think the hell-talons being the best interceptor we (or pretty much anyone) has due to their massive range lascannon, detracts from the hellblades, and from the talons bomber role, and think that it should be reduced along with their price

i think the harbinger needs to be significantly more durable than that to be worth taking at all. i've done numerous playtests in its various configurations, and am fairly happy with the stats i use in my 'bloody hand' list. that being said, the problem with bomber aircraft remains that they cannot sustain, so their BP is worth less than ground artillery, and can never improve its reliability no matter how many BP they're given. (i also find it hard to justify, performance-wise, compared to two flights of helltalons, who are faster, can intercept enemy aircraft, do more damage on a bombing run, have two activations, and drop more blast markers on the enemy in the process)

my thoughts on chaos aircraft can largely be seen in my development thread and the stats in the compendium
Author:  Ginger [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - aircraft
I would agree with Frogbear that Hellblades are really good if used conservatively; 6x shots against broken targets is going to hurt and 6x AA4+ can be a real deterent on CAP, even against THawks (but don't try it againts Ork Landas which will swat them out of the sky). Jinking makes them reasonably safe against interception and three models does provide some resilience.

Helltalons are also really good; the 4x BP shot can be really effective against infantry, though perhaps slightly less usefull against armour. They might be slightly under priced at 250, though having only two models does mean they are quite brittle and must avoid AA where at all possible.

As a consequence of the above, I have rarely if ever seen the Harbinger; relative to the others it is a tad over-priced even with it's immense fire power - a lucky shot will bring the single model crashing to earth. Here there is a possible argument for RA, though I am sure that was debated earlier.
Author:  pixelgeek [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - aircraft
I'll defer on the issue of the Hellblades. I suspect that I am just cursed trying to use them as I had nothing but bad luck with them.
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