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BLACK LEGION REVIEW - CHANGES TO TEST
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=22700		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  Steve54 [ Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  BLACK LEGION REVIEW - CHANGES TO TEST
Changes to BL list for testing to see how they work with a timetable of reviewing the list for the next armybook (end of the year)
Latest BL list (to which these changes apply can be found in the compendium here viewtopic.php?f=69&t=22512

SPECIAL RULES
Faction rule deleted - therefore all units are 1+ initiative

Slaanesh, Khorne, Tzeentch + Nurgle formations the same daemons as before
Undivided formations now can summon daemons from any faction in any combination, however lesser daemons (apart from Daemonic beasts) cost 2 summoning points rather than 1. Any GD can also be summoned (cost as normal)
WHY Faction rule was unecessary, Undivided changes provide a reason to choose undivided with a greater choice of daemons though at a higher cost

LIST
- structure - Elite - You may have 1 BL elite formation per Black Legion Retinue selected
Support - You may have 2 BL support formations per Black Legion Retinue or Armoured Retinue chosen
So the Armor Co unlock support but not elite

- Move Armoured Co to Core section
WHY - To allow a wider range of builds for the list and also more activations. Core/elite/support changes to prevent possible pred+chosen spam

- Move Decimators to WE+air section
WHY - Playing against a list where 7+ fearless WEs is possible isn't fun

- Terminators - drop extra units to 60pts
WHY Extra terminators are currently a little overpriced

- Warlord - increase cost to 50pts
WHY With the list being 1+ init across the board 50 brings it into line with SM SC


DAEMON SUMMONING
The basic summoning mechanic remains the same
- Daemonic Pact - stay at 25pts. For each Daemonic Pact purchased add 1 lesser daemon to the daemon pool. Extra lesser Daemons can be purchased as normal.
- Icon Bearer - reduced to 25pts
- Champion- stays at 50pts. The Champion augments summoning as before, in additon instead of augmenting the summoning of lesser daemons the Champion may be Sacrificed. If the unit is Sacrificed it uses its full possible 6 summoning points (in combination with a Daemonic Pact) to summon a Greater Daemon, the Greater Daemon is placed within 10cm of the Champion and the Champion unit is then permanently removed.
WHY The pact change makes using lesser daemons cheaper, the changes to the Champion make it automatic to summon a GD (via sacrifice) in a fluffy manner.

UNITS
- drop Obliterator to 75pts
WHY - the previous stats drop+points increase was too much

- drop Banelord to 800pts
WHY - THE banelord currently is a underperforming choice

- Helltalons drop to 225pts. AA shot drops to 30cm from 45cm, bombs gain IC
WHY - 45cm Intercepting shots don't work well, bombs improved to promote bomber use

- Lesser Daemons - all drop to 15pts
WHY To make daemon use cheaper

- Greater Daemons - drop to 50pts
- gain daemonic focus in notes
WHY With the changes in summoning reduces cost of GD+kit to summon it to 125pts, having auto-focus stops need for extra expense of icon

Attachments:
black_legion_2012_dev (1).pdf [534.51 KiB]
Downloaded 347 times
Author:  frogbear [ Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
Steve54 wrote:
- Move Decimators to WE+air section

Boo!
Author:  captPiett [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
Steve,
Will purchasing decimators work the same way? I assume that they will lose their defiler upgrade option if they're in the WE/air section? I have no opinion one way or the other, but it might be important on the off chance someone has a spare 75pts for a defiler upgrade.

Any thoughts of coordinating with Adam77 to make a "BL test list" with these changes on his army builder? The heltalon and helblade prices could be updated as well.
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
Steve54 wrote:
LIST
- Move Armoured Co to Core section

- Move Decimators to WE+air section

UNITS
- drop Obliterator to 75pts

Do the armor companies open support/elite slots or just the retinues?


Either way... W00t! My Slaanesh armor-themed CSM list is legal again!

This list worked well, but was definitely not overpowered. It was one of my favorite chaos lists to play with. Thematically, it's just marine infantry backed by heavy armor (retinues backed by Decimators and Bikes backed by LRs).

Retinue + noise marines (Warlord)
Retinue + havocs
Decimator
Decimator
Chosen + pact
LRs (6)
Bikes + pact
Termies (5 + DP)
Helltalons
A few lesser daemons

9 formations, 3K. It played with an area denial strategy and hammer/anvil maneuver. Retinues garrison on OW with Decimators behind. Bikes backed by LRs are a flank maneuver element. Chosen as a monkey-wrench or to work with the maneuver element. Termies as a hammer. Just one formation of air cover.
Author:  Curis [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
I've got two Predator formations waiting in the wings.

As Neal's asked - do they open support and elite choices?
Author:  Steve54 [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
For the moment how about
Elite - You may have 1 BL elite formation per Black Legion Retinue selected
Support - You may have 2 BL support formations per Black Legion Retinue or Armoured Retinue chosen

So they unlock support but not elite
Author:  nealhunt [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
I don't have any strong objection but I don't know that it's necessary to break it down into different levels.

It's already a 2-tier structure. I'd say either keep them both 1/Retinue or make them both 1/core for simplicity's sake.
Author:  pixelgeek [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
nealhunt wrote:
It's already a 2-tier structure. I'd say either keep them both 1/Retinue or make them both 1/core for simplicity's sake.


I agree. Its easier to remember and serves almost the exact same purpose.
Author:  stompzilla [ Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
Steve54 wrote:
For the moment how about
Elite - You may have 1 BL elite formation per Black Legion Retinue selected
Support - You may have 2 BL support formations per Black Legion Retinue or Armoured Retinue chosen

So they unlock support but not elite


I like it.
Author:  Steve54 [ Sat May 19, 2012 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
List to test updated, unless anybody has any other issues can we test these with a target of the 2013 armybook with particular attention to the structure+daemon changes
Author:  Steve54 [ Tue May 22, 2012 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
List updated - to more aggressive in reducing daemon use cost.
Author:  Ginger [ Tue May 22, 2012 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
Steve, could you update the header of this thread with a link in to the draft of the BL list containing the proposed changes.
It does not need to be 'pretty' as it only needs to demonstrate the list structure and costs etc. This will help the uninitiated to visualise and test the list in totality rather than trying to follow through the various changes in this and other threads.
Author:  Steve54 [ Wed May 23, 2012 7:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
Ok, will do. Basically these changes apply to the 2012 armybook/compendium
Author:  Onyx [ Wed May 23, 2012 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
Is this a Black Legion only trial or can these changes be tested across other lists (for example, the Iron Warriors list includes Obliterators and Helltalons)?
Author:  Steve54 [ Thu May 24, 2012 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BL Review - Items to test
Can't see a problem with that as the balance changing changes (daemons, structure) don't really affect IW
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