Plague Tower is in Apocalypse: Reload and on the GW site. Doom Blaster, Lord of Battle, Silver Tower, and Subjugator are all on GW site also. Those are the current ones. Others are part of the established background, but GW dosen't mention them right now. Kind of like Epic. So these specific Daemon Engines are indeed worth mentioning. Whether they have a place in this list is debatable - if it's decided that all WE classes are included they do, but I have my doubts about that, especially in light of the Stygian Incident list.

The Stygian incident list is interesting. One thing I see is that maddoctor has just one weapon that is undivided in nature. This is perhaps fitting, since undivided daemon engines would be rare. However undivided titans with corrupted Imperial weapons would not be rare. So we need a set of undivided weapons, and a set of "gifted" weapons, at least one per power. And likely the same in upgrades. And a special rule disallowing gifts (weapons or not) from multiple gods on the same engine.

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Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

It would depend on the specific Gifts that are suggested. I was thinking that the list would limit what was potentially added to a model based on its size.



Knights are problematic. I don't know how much the Chaos list wants to emulate the ATML list. Are the Slaanesh engines intended to be corrupted Knights or something else?



Storm of Iron makes it seem as if some Legions only have access to Titans but that might be because the Legion is so closely associated with the Iron Warriors. Perhaps a Dark Mechanicum based force would be truer to the original structure of the Titan Legions.



If you make it so they can Garrison then there is a formation that acts in a similar fashion to the Sentinels in the ATML list.



I like SHTs but that is just me :-) GW seems to have a focus on corrupted Baneblades and the Throne of Skulls is just a converted and possessed Baneblade as well.

I understand not wanting to focus on them but a support formation that is a single SHT might be useful as well as allow the player to keep their activation count high and also do some neat modelling.



AA might be a more useful Titan upgrade. Also stops the list being spammed with flak vehicles.

The Leman Russ is ubiquitous enough, and there are enough captured Forge Worlds, that it could be a tank option.



Sentinels seem too much a Guard unit don't you think? Robots and Defilers sound good. Should be enough robot proxies about to make it easy to get some of them

In any case I think we might be getting the cart before the horse by talking about the place of specific units without really doing a top-level definition of what the force is and what it is intended to fight as.

Maybe we can come to some sort of an agreement about that first and then talk about realizing those design goals with specific formations and models?

my suggestion:

Ruinious Powers Tratior Titan Legions


1. THE MISSION

THEME: A Traitor Titan list.

PREDECCESORS: based off the Adeptus Mechanicus War Gryphonnes List. Cult Titans
(where existing taken from other Chaos Lists)
Respect should also be paid to the Ork Big Mob list, and the Eldar Titan clan.

DIFFERENCES:
This is a Chaos titan legion list, not imperial. The comparison is like between Chaos Marines and the Space Marines themselves.
This is NOT a traitor guard list.
This is not a legion list. Monotyping Gods to be allowed, but a slight emphasis will be on diversity of form and nature. No two titans should be alike.

SUPPLEMENT? None as yet. Possibly Badab war? Possibly the 30k era supplement? Possibly Inquisition?

FOCUS: The Titans are the key focus. Support formations, SHT's, demons ect will need to justify their existence in the list. Some small units are encouraged, to make the titans look bigger.

COMMITMENT: to who ever takes it on, good luck!


2. OBJECTIVES

STRUCTURE: Titan formations as core, all else support. Nothing or very little in the way of allies. Small formations of troops, limited amount of demons.
Existing models should be fieldable and room for home conversions should be allocated.

WEAKNESSES: Cannot hold ground as effectively as normal list. Resilient, but difficult to break enough enemy formations to keep initiative. Slow, and normally outmaneuvered. Once you start losing, it may be difficult to come back. Faction hatreds will make fighting as a tight bunch difficult.


PLAYSTYLE: Player has to think about the different tools available, and use them carefully. Emphasis should be upon movement and spending your limited activations carefully.
ICONIC UNITS: Imperator, Warlord, Reaver, Warhound. Undivided and Cult versions of all of these.

EXPERIMENTAL UNITS: Most of the cult titans are new, or from developing lists.

OPTIONAL EXTRAS: Harbinger bomber, small demons, Big mutants, cultists, Chaos Alter, Chaos Spawn, Chaos Hounds. AV formations including Cult AV?
Demon engines from Latd list? SHTs probably unnecessary.

DESIGN GUIDELINES:
Titans first.
No treading on Legion list territorty.
No treading on Demon Engine list territorty (please )
No mass infantry - leave that to the latd and traitor gaurd lists.

SUPPLEMENT EFFECTS? No supplement nominated yet. It would help focus the list further though.

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For the reasons already outlined. Think im going to have to have to agree to disagree, as i find the points contradictory and unsatisfactory, and you presumably find similar fault with mine

Anyway, a chaos titan list sounds great and is long overdue, i like the way this is going, mostly, just think it's getting there for the wrong reasons.

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This is probably the easiest way to adapt the current AMTL list structure to something more chaos-y. It's the same modular build with slightly different weapon slots.

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As far as what kinds of "Dark Mechanicus" lists there might be...

A generic chaos titan legion list which could lean towards any of the powers or a mix.

Any "cult" or faction-specific list that could be sufficiently distinguished from #1, e.g. the "Titan Worshipper" structure I toyed with for Suns of Damnation. As long as it is sufficiently different in flavor and feel, it's fair game.

House Devine, or possibly a more generic fallen Knight Household with some House Devine-specific options for those who want that particular house.

Dark Mechanicus/Corrupted Skitarii, if there is sufficient material to develop a characteristic feel for them.

Neal,

You are the man when it comes to Thousand Son and all things Tzeentch, what do you think would be appropriate to,represent the Mark of Tzeentch? Secondly what would be say would be appropriate two to three gifts that could be bestowed upon titans following that god?

Cheers
Aaron

I would have thought that the main difference here would be the use of banned/proscribed tech (greater proportion of robots, including possessed ones) and units infected with the Obliterator virus. I'm not sure how distinct from the Daemon Engine list this would be....

I wouldn't say that. However, as part of an old experience system project, we came up with chaos upgrades on titans. These weren't really intended to be balanced, so they will almost certainly need to be tweaked and/or pointed appropriately.

Tzeentch
Chosen of Tzeench – Titan provides initiative reroll as Supreme Commander (no other benefits of a SC)
Warp Flame (Tzeentch) - +1CC EA, First Strike.
Wings/Flying Discs (Tzeentch, probably Scout Titans only) - Jump Pack
The Suns of Damnation list I wrote up is fair game for mining ideas from.

Lesser Chaos Gods
Bloodlust of Khorne – WE counts as having no BMs when in close combat
Chosen of Khorne – Titan’s base (DC) CC attacks count as MW
Chosen of Slaanesh – WE’s base attacks in assault (DC) gain First Strike
Chosen of Nurgle – +1 DC

Non-Faction Gifts
Daemon Weapon - One system gains Disrupt, or CC weapon gives +1 CC MW
Sorcerous Gifts (not available for Khorne) – 30cm MW4+ and Small Arms, Extra Attack (+1), MW
Chaos tail – Assault Weapon, +2 extra attacks [could probably be better done as a weapon mount]
Daemonic Aura – WE gains Inspiring ability
Fast (doesn't make sense for Nurgle, but others all ok) - +5 cm additional movement, WE may countercharge 10cm when assaulted regardless of base speed


There are a bunch of other upgrade ideas that are generic, but could be "chaos-ified" by appropriate flavor.

Damage Control (titan only) – +1 shield repaired in the end phase or during Marshall action
Marksmanship - One weapon system causes critical hits on 5+ instead of 6
Accurate - One weapon system gets +1 to hit
Favored Commander – Command ability
Damage Limitation – Invulnerable save
Lightning Reflexes – WE’s base attacks in assault (DC) gain First Strike
Tactical Genius – May reroll failed activation roll

I've only just noticed how you organised the gods there

can we colalesc existing fluff re the traitor titan legions? I've checked out the various wikis. There are lists of traitor titan legions, but not much else by way of information.

In particular, there seems to not be much evidence either way wether a legion all follow one god or are divided.

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I totally missed that the first time around too.

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Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Heh. Good. I thought I was being too blatant.


That's because there isn't much. I included everything I could find in my reference sheet.

Very few legions are faction-specific and among the ones that are, there is plenty of room for doubt. Often the faction evidence is weak, like the old Horus Heresy game where titan legions were all assigned to one of the faction players. There was an assumption that the legions worshiped the respective gods because they were allied with the cult CSM legions, but there's not much in the way of explicit statements to that effect. Both the Slaanesh faction and the Tzeentch faction titans legions from the HH game are noted as being Khornate elsewhere in the fiction.

The only ones that are definitively faction specific are the Festering Death (Nurgle) and Suns of Damnation (Tzeentch).

==

Edit: I was going to add a link to the titan doc, but I can't find it on the Tacticalwargames website any move. I'm attaching it.

bugger all to go on then.

who was it who made a titan fighting game last year?
I remeber that had tables and tables of mutations and upgrades to play with. can't find it now though.

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Red Simon

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

having found the section of the baord for it, i think it was actually Evil and Chao's game i was thinking of.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... y=CJfzh9YK

upgrades pgs 30-32

They seem reasonably easy to coalesce into a compact upgrade list.

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