A question popped up after yesterday's game, BL vs. SM: The game went to points, but we were both flummoxed by how to account for the daemons. Are they counted? It seems like it could get a bit complicated, especially when you take into account that the chaos player can gain or lose them from the daemon pool based on his strategy roll.

So, out of 10 purchased at the outset of the game, I lost 1 by rolling a '1' in the first turn; 7 were killed and banished back to the warp, and 2 lived and were on the board prior to rallying at the end of turn 4. As I didn't have an icon bearer, they would have gone back to the warp as normal. Do daemon points get put in the VP calculation, and if so, is there a distinction between merely in the pool and banished/dead?

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I'm sure there's a ruling or thread somewhere. I'll look in a bit.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Can't seem to find anything. Could have sworn there was something around.

My unofficial ruling would be they do not contribute to VP in any way. It's a pool, not a formation, and so is not tallied up in the VP calculations.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

The Epic-UK Chaos Marine list states:


Not sure in the Net-EA list, may or may not be the same.

200 UK VP's to Dave...

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

That's 326.97 points US according to XE currency converter . Decisive victory to you....





...jerk

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

Good question. I would expect that if they are not destroyed (much like a Space Craft) the opponent does not get the points for the last two. If we were playing this scenario, we would probably count the demon pool as a formation and work out the points on half or fully wiped out.

It is a tough one however as the space ship (you get no points for it as an opponent) sets a precedent. Then I am told that the Necrons form a different precedent...or exception?

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Frogbear is responsible for...
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You could always relate it back to the Potential of a unit.

Does it have the potential to hit the table? If yes, then full points are alloted
If no (spacecraft) then no points can be gained from it

This gets past all the other examples of whether an opponent holds a unit off the table or they fail to appear.

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What if you bought a deamon pool but no ability to summon them...

I remember this being brought up in the past. It definitely needs a standardized approach. I've played opponents that have either chosen or forgotten to bring on teleporters or portalled formations, but the games didn't end in ties. It's also possible that a drop contingent won't arrive (Chaos and Eldar are 2+, Orks are 3+ if playing an army with Drop Roks/Kans).

It doesn't matter to me much because I don't play tournaments, but most tournaments seem to have casualties count for tiebreaks. So it'll matter, even if the game doesn't end in a tie.

As Frogbear mentioned, Necrons have a special rule that states that reserves off-board count as destroyed (and count for BTS), but there doesn't seem to be any overriding rules for it. The spacecraft ruling and the rules themselves seem to indicate it doesn't. It specifically says 'destroyed', which a non-board formation isn't, but that's partially contradicted by saying that a formation that Planetfall scatters, is destroyed. And there's apparently no official ruling on the consequence of a War Engine scattering off the table either. And that means technically aircrews (ie, stuff in Thunderhawks off board) need an answer as well.

So, that's
1) Spacecraft (answered)
2) Spacecraft cargo (drop pods and cargo, planetfalling WE)
3) Daemon Pools
4) Portalled reserves
5) Teleporting reserves
6) Aircraft crews
7) War Engines staggering off-table (can they? and consequences of)

That's all the issues I can find unanswered at the moment.

Morgan Vening

Well how about if you get free Daemons every turn to your Daemon pool because you roll lucky on the initiative...

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A good question CaptPiet.

The Daemon pool has been debated at length and as GlynG says, in the UK there is a ruling that treats it like a separate formation.

For all other formations RAW, formations have to be 50% damaged or destroyed to award points to the opponent, so if a formation failed to appear for some reason and thus remains undamaged, it does not count towards the points irrespective of why it is off-table, or the reason it failed to enter.
(Note the Necrons are covered by a special rule that states their formations count as destroyed if off-table).

I have a feeling that the titan staggering off-table counts as destroyed in the same way that planetfalling troops that drift off-table are also considered destroyed.