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Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=20292		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  novemberrain [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
Hi guys,

It seems to me, form ahving gone through the tournament lists etc, that almost no one uses Chaos Predators or land Raider (or loyalist versions for that matter). The question I have is twofold: why does no one use them? and if I wanted to use them (some lovely otterware is persauding me) how would you suggest using them to get the most out of them?

Thanks guys.
Author:  mnb [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
Can't speak for chaos, but the reason they are not fielded in regular SM army is that people are incapable/unwilling to play a non-drop army.
Author:  mspaetauf [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
with the loyal SM I usually don't use them (prefer Whirlwinds), but last time I tried a formation of 4 at 275 points, and to be honest they did quite well. You have to make use of your high strategy rating and try to go on sustained fire.
I usually don't take them because A) the formation is too small and B) they die too easily. I'd like to have either 6 of them or 4+ reinforced...

as for Chaos: don't know, I'm just planning my Chaos army, but I was aiming at fielding a formation of 8 predators. I like the models. Only drawback is that Chaos ones don't have twin lascannon :(

cheers,
Author:  captPiett [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
mspaetauf wrote:
Only drawback is that Chaos ones don't have twin lascannon

Ummm... according to the compendium they do - a twin las cannon and 2 heavy bolters.
Chaos preds aren't min/maxed toward AP or AT like good-guy annihilators or destructors, but they make for a cheap activation.
Author:  nealhunt [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
The EUK lists show a substantial portion of armor in Black Legion lists, though they are mostly Land Raiders.

I remember seeing 1-2 LR/3-4 Pred formations regularly. Put the LRs out front to soak hits on the 4+RA armor and the Preds in the back for cheaper firepower.
Author:  mspaetauf [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
captPiett wrote:
Ummm... according to the compendium they do - a twin las cannon and 2 heavy bolters.
Chaos preds aren't min/maxed toward AP or AT like good-guy annihilators or destructors, but they make for a cheap activation.


oh ok then it's the other way round - I just remembered they don't come with lascannons in all spots.
Author:  frogbear [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
novemberrain wrote:
Hi guys,
It seems to me, form ahving gone through the tournament lists etc, that almost no one uses Chaos Predators or land Raider (or loyalist versions for that matter). The question I have is twofold: why does no one use them? and if I wanted to use them (some lovely otterware is persauding me) how would you suggest using them to get the most out of them?
Thanks guys.


The Emperor's Children list makes use of the Predators in a very useful way due to their FF statistic. Having an AV running around with a good MV stat and suburb support on an assault makes them quite valuable in that list.

Other than that, it is just a matter of cost. When weighing up the points, there are usually better strategic options to take in most other lists.
Author:  slammeister [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
Actually I find that in a Black Legion army, a retinue transported by 4 land raiders is an extremely effective armoured unit. In fact I almost never field an army without one.

It is a superb tank hunter and has the speed to grab objectives when needed. The fact that it has 12 units in it combined with the reinforced armour makes it really quite difficult to break.

Also it fills an important gap in the BL list which is its dual AT4+ per land raider. Chaos typically is a slow army with poor anit-vehical weapons, and having good anti-vehical support able to get to where it is needed is an absolute must. And as BL units go it's not too expensive at 575 points. And if it can support in an assault (which given its high speed it should be able to in every game) then you are laughing.

Predators too are a great way to deal with intermingled units due to their combination AP/AT shots and 8 in a formation will only set you back 400 pts so they are also always a consideration for me (also, again they are faster than most other formations a BL army can field which is a serious bonus)

I never combine the two though as it will slow the predators down and you will be unable to transport a retinue in them if you do (and having a retinue inside is always good for soaking blast markers and casualties and laying down anti personel fire)
Author:  novemberrain [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
Ah I see what you mean Slammeister, the 4 LR and retinue thing sounds like it could be really effective! I may have to snaffle some LR's form ebay sometime.

I play against Eldar quite a lot (when I am not playing Eldar myself) and I can see the use of a few little 4 or 6 Predator formations, the At / Ap combo could really make a mess of the typically mixed guardian formations and aspects w/ Wave Serpent formation
Author:  slammeister [ Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
Yeah man, against combined unit types preds and land raiders are the shiz but if you really want to piss off your opponant (troll face) then stick a cult of thousand sons in there with 2 more land raiders to get the RA on infantry so that you get a save against macro barage weapons. Yeah it boosts the unit to a hefty 875 points but its a nigh unmovable stain on the battlefield kicking out a lot of firepower every turn and you can always recoup your activation count on forlorn hope formations and a small formation of raptors etc.

Another cheesy thing you may want to try out, as it has worked for me when I have tried it, is having a Black Legion retinue with a Khorn cult and havocs transported in rhinos with a daemon pact and icon bearer and champion (again a hefty 780 points but hear me out).
Get it to within assault range of the enemy's best intermingled unit (generally an IG command HQ with demolishers in it when I have tried) with some summoned flesh hounds up front to take the hits (as long as your opponant is happy for you to use the additional daemon rules).

Now you are going to take some hits but dont worry too much as your daemons will soak most of them (try to use this as a last/first activation).

On the next turn, summon a greater daemon if you can and pile in. The flesh hounds and berzerkers will close down a lot of zones of control as you will have them up front, also the greater daemon can barge through infantry, but once this is done then (and here's the cheesy bit) throw your rhinos into close combat with his demolishers (or wraithguard in your case to stop them using their macro weapon) to make them use their close combat stat. You are going to lose your rhinos but once you are in assault range they are next to useless anyway and with any luck at all you will be causing waaay more deaths than the enemy.

Once this is done (if playing against Eldar) more than likely you will have a nightmare unit sitting on his wraithgate and he will have lost his supreme comander.

Now here is the important part: get ready to duck. Your opponant is now going to throw something at your head so be ready :P

p.s. only try this once. It is funny to use rhinos in this way but could be seen by some as cheesy in the extreme.
Author:  novemberrain [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
So do you mean having 4 Land Raiders and 2 Rhinos transporting a Retinue with Tsons? Because it seems you can only buy up to four Land Raiders as an upgrade to the Retinue?
Author:  Ginger [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
But with carefull placement, the LRs can soak off AV hits protecting the more vulnerable Rhinos
Author:  slammeister [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
Yeah, having looked at the list again it would need to be 2 x rhino in at the back but I've been giving it some thought and am going to try a bit of an experiment in my next game:

Instead of putting a Black Legion retinue in them, I'm going to go for 4 terminators. I know it lowers their break point significantly and reduces their range for effective AP fire (from 45cm 6+ to 30cm 4+) but I think that the RA might make it worth it. Also the unit becomes 15 points cheaper and you wont see your land raiders collapse if they are assaulted in CC by stormboys and their ilk nearly as much (alsoit becomes that bit less succeptable to barrage). It'll still be a tank hunter, but I think a much better protected one, and with the flexability to change role if needed to an assault machine.

Might work, I very rarely use terminators anyway but this might be a nice unexpected use for them.
Author:  novemberrain [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Predators and Land Raiders
Just finished painting up my 9 Preds, and looking forward to using them this coming week!
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