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Chaos Squats Army List

 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:08 am 
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Played a game versus Biel tan Eldar the other day. Won by victory points. I have this army mostly assembled and painted because I was using the Chaos squats for LATD.
List played

2 Lords of Battle BTS
Ur Cannon
Ur Cannon
Squats with Transport
Squats with Transport and Doombane
Squats with Transports, Doombane, and Zharr
4 T2 Engines of Hashut
Ludus Golyam with 4 Big mutant upgrades

I liked the army it didn't seem overly powerful.
I want to try out moles and sentinels next time.
I want to use these as moles
http://www.frpgames.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=29036


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:23 am 
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Nice, a secret supporter, I love it! :)

Thanks for reporting on the game and giving the list angron.

I see that there is yet another selection of the T2 Engines of Hashvaht over the T1s. One part of me tells me that I have to review them, yet another part tells me that they are fine as is. This will be something that I will keep an eye on as the list develops further.

The 2 Lords of Battle was a nice surprise. I am at a point of making a decision whether they stay or go. Seeing that they are being used, I may keep them in there and have 4 'War Engines' formations available (with the inclusion of the Zeppelin). This can be reviewed on a future revision as well.

How did you find the Ludus Golyam? Effective?

The Squat detachments: how do you feel with giving them the Entourage upgrade (as per the previous post)? Do you feel it is warranted?

Ur Cannons: I could not get 2 in the list I took. No doubt a great unit. Did your opponent concentrate on these?

Thanks again for your contribution. It all helps

Cheers..... :)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:29 am 
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Further changes for the next version:

With the addition of Entourage, the Annihilators upgrade will be re-worded to state; Replace up to 4 Chaos Squat units with Annihilator Units

Just doing a combination of house work, TOEG, and working on the Zeppelin stats today. Hope to have something out today or tomorrow for the next version.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:26 pm 
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I have been working on the Zeppelin to make it a mid sized War Engine.

I am unsure of the role of the Zeppelin - Bomber & Transport or totally committed to firepower.

So far I am settling on the following stats:

=====================
- Move: 25cm, AR4+, FF4+
- DC6, Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Skimmer

Weaponry
- AntiAir 30-45cm range
- 4-6 Battlecannons - (75cm AP4/AT4)
- Barrage 30cm - 6BP (limited ammo?, ignore cover?, disrupt?, Slow?)

Restrictions
- May not make a March move.
- Always 'popped up' - may always be fired upon with usual terrain convention supplying 'cover to hit modifiers'

Critical: TBA
Cost: TBA
=====================

Any thoughts on the role it should play?

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:23 pm 
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Critical could be the hole thing exploding, or what about serious damage to the 'balloon' forcing it to drop altitude? removing pop-up attacks and allowing CC assaults vs it once critical'd.

Always popped up+transport seems like an awkward combo, i would see the ziggas (whether you envisage them as choppers or Zeppelins) would do the troop ferrying as they would be smaller, more agile and less of an asset to risk for dropping troops into direct combat. While the bigger Zeppelin could carry a lot of troops, im not sure i see it being of much use within the scope of EA (too slow to land/take-off, and you'd need a lot of ladders otherwise and i don't see the CS having grav chutes). The hellbore already provides a means of mass transport for the list.

I like the idea of having it as fire-power dedicated, some AA, some guns and a limited ammo barrage sounds good.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:47 pm 
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I think the T1's would be better if the lost the barrage weapon and had their gun range increased, giving them a more defined role.
I love the Lords of Battle, the psyche factor alone on them is why I take them. They have a ton of guns move at a decent speed and are great in an assault.
My opponent didn't focus on my Ur cannons, I think for two reasons , one I was rolling poorly with them and two the LoBs were a more desirable target , as a threat and my BTS.
The gladiators never left the transport, I used the Zigganook to pick on broken formations. The 65 cm threat range and decent shooting made it more useful for placing BWs than assaulting a skimmer heavy army.
I like the Entourage upgrade idea. I don't like paying extra for annihilators. They are not worth the close to 50pts after the swap you pay for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:21 pm 
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Quote:
I don't like paying extra for annihilators. They are not worth the close to 50pts after the swap you pay for them.


I have been looking at this and trying to make comparisons to Marine Tactical squads. For some reason I had an idea that the upgrade would be 25 points per 2 replaced rather than just the 1. I will go back and do the numbers to make sure that it is correct or whether it needs to be changed.

Quote:
I think the T1's would be better if the lost the barrage weapon and had their gun range increased, giving them a more defined role.


Noted

Quote:
I like the idea of having it as fire-power dedicated, some AA, some guns and a limited ammo barrage sounds good.


That is what I am leaning towards as well. I have trouble seeing Chaos Squats jumping out of airborne assaults.

I will see what time I can find to work on these ideas more.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:55 am 
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This is what happens when a zeppelin suffers a critical hit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDU2MWJwJDc

Also, having read a bit more, it should be able to march. The Hindenbrug had a top speed of 135 km/h. That's a lot faster than most units in E:A. So having it not beeing able to march is simply wrong. (It's top speed is even called Marschgeschwindigkeit in german xD)


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:07 am 
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That Zeppelin was not built by Chaos Squats however... :)

Apologies for not sticking to planned schedule on this; daughter has been sick and work has been busy.

I am currently working out costings and balancing Annihilators in the Chaos Squat detachment.

Goal is to have an updated list with Zeppelin inclusion this week. As for Zeppelin Marching, you bring up some good points. I will work on developing the unit as ~600 point War Engine. Let's see how we go.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:06 am 
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Comparrisons to other lists have proven (to me at least) that the Annihalators upgrade is slightly overpriced.

I have 2 solutions to this which are as follows:

- Annihaltors are to increase their FF to 3+ which is more representative of their firepower in massed groups. This will be an immediate change.

- The second is to also give the Chaos Squad detatchment optional Vedaj transports for their same points along with the above increase to FF.

Feedback appreciated... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:57 am 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
Critical could be the hole thing exploding, or what about serious damage to the 'balloon' forcing it to drop altitude? removing pop-up attacks and allowing CC assaults vs it once critical'd.

Always popped up+transport seems like an awkward combo, i would see the ziggas (whether you envisage them as choppers or Zeppelins) would do the troop ferrying as they would be smaller, more agile and less of an asset to risk for dropping troops into direct combat. While the bigger Zeppelin could carry a lot of troops, im not sure i see it being of much use within the scope of EA (too slow to land/take-off, and you'd need a lot of ladders otherwise and i don't see the CS having grav chutes). The hellbore already provides a means of mass transport for the list.

I like the idea of having it as fire-power dedicated, some AA, some guns and a limited ammo barrage sounds good.

I agree with most of this.

Critical could be the same as the Reaver/Warlord system. Could go along the lines of keeping any fires away from inflamable areas.

Always popped up/transport doesn't really work (I've had a bit of practice with this using Tau Mantas). I'd also much rather a mid sized Zepplin War Engine was a gun ship.

I've had a bit more of a play with my Zepplins.
I really liked PompeyPierre's idea so I cut the engines in half and moved them underneath.
This had the happy side effect of making more space for guns... always a good thing ;D !
Image
Image
Image

I think I'll still put a few more details (spikes or something similar) on these things... we'll see.

Cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:09 am 
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Looking good Onyx

You guys are really keeping me on my toes! :o

I will get to work on completing stats for the Zep this weekend.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:20 am 
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Another review:

I notice that I have 4x Vedaj priced at 50 points.

Goal is to make this a 25 point transport option. Unsure whether it is necessary to reduce its AR to do this. May in fact reduce CC to 6+.

Edit: If they become a free optional selection for the Chaos Squat Detachment, I can remove them from the transport upgrade

=============================

Current Comparrisons on formations:

- Space Marine Tacticals - 6 men, 3 Rhino (9 unit strength) for 300 points or 350 points with a character (these have ATSKNF)
- Chaos Marines - 8 men (8 unit strength) with a character - 275 points or 315 points with Rhinos

Currently I have the 4x Chaos Squats and 4x Annihaltors coming in at 300 points or 325 with Vedaj transports (after the cost review).

It is now just a decision as to whether I allow the free and optional vedaj for the formation @ 300 points.

Other army strengths
- overall better armour
- Marines have ATSKNF
- Foot movement is superior
- Superior Strategy Rating
- Superior Initiative
- More spread to units and who can shoot (not all in "one basket" as per the Annihalators) - 1 kill is only -1 unit that can fire
- Cheap Air Support


Chaos Squat Strengths
- Better effect on shooting
- Better FF
- Numbers (equal to Chaos Marines with Rhinos)

I really am leaning towards giving the Core formation the free and optional Vedaj as the Strategy Rating, Initiative and crippling 'foot slog' really have an effect on the formation as opposed to the other examples. Any General who destroys a Vedaj has effectively relegated that formation to no more than a 30cm dash each round or a 20cm strategic move.

Hmmm... so much to think about...

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:48 pm 
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I have the updated version underway and am just about ready to place it as a PDF and load it.

I am going to give it a rest and look at it again tomorrow before I do however. Need to make sure I have not missed anything.

In the meantime (without doing comparisons or working out points), I am going along this path for the Zeppelin:


3 x Battlecannon 45cm AP4+/AT4+/AA5+ LArc
3 x Battlecannon 45cm AP4+/AT4+/AA5+ RArc
3 x Battlecannon 75cm AP4+/AT4+ FxF
6x Bombs 30cm 1BP, Ignore Cover, Single Shot

DC5(?), Fearless, Reinforced Armour, Skimmer, Thick Rear Armour

Critical will probably be the same or equivilent to the Reaver titan

Still playing around with the idea of "Always Popped Up"

========================================

Death Dealers and Lord of Battles - I have removed and placed these back in the list 2 times now - so undecided.

I think for this version I will keep them in. Afterall, it is always easy to cut them out in a future version.

So if the list looks a little "busy" when I release it, know that I can slash when needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:13 pm 
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Thanks FB.

Those bombs have a long range?

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