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Chaos Squats Army List

 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:53 pm 
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Is there actually any 6mm company out there producing CS proxies? I only found 5 of them on ebay and they are rather pricy.

And some Zeppelin Links for inspiration

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:08 pm 
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ColonelWicked wrote:
Is there actually any 6mm company out there producing CS proxies? I only found 5 of them on ebay and they are rather pricy.


GW only ever made 1 CS epic mini, 5 chaos squats were on each of the old chaos sprues. These tend to be very cheap as they are not used for anything anymore, ive got 40 or 50 bases worth of them over the last few years for probably £10 total. Exodus Wars make a 6mm space dwarf race that has some useful stuff for CSs though.

The GW 40k scale CS minis will be more expensive, long OOP citadel minis collector's kinda stuff.

Nice Zeppelins

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:58 pm 
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Type in Zeppelin on ebay and you will find something like this for about US$7. I think it is about 12cm long so not bad (I am receiving one in the mail next week I think)
Image


For about US$5 you can find these by typing in Chinook - about 7cm long (although these are harder to find):
Image

Chaos Squats could potentially be one of the Cheaper armies you will ever make if you wanted it that way. It can use alot of those models people do not want or use (Chaos Squats, beastmen, Large Mutants etc). It is also supported by other miniature ranges as Apoc stated, and sometime some imagination is needed. Ask around (from private sellers and stores) for weapon pieces if you do not need the full mini, and also look out for plastic Rhinos and Landraiders as they can be used to great effect - as Apoc has shown earlier in this thread.

I will start to get onto the Zeppelin rules this month hopefully.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:00 am 
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These just arrived so here are the size comparisons:

Image

Image

No doubt a fair bit of conversion is necessary so I am going to send a set off to someone who has far more imagination than me to see what he does with them. The sizings are fine IMO.

My plan is to have the Zeppelin on a higher flight stand to represent it's status on a table (always "popped up").

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:20 am 
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Been looking at some ideas and here are some pics for inspiration:

Probably the best known by our own Warmaster Nice it seems !!
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Standard:
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Classic Sci Fi
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Fantasy Versions:
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Last edited by frogbear on Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:22 am 
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Not 'Zeppelin type' airships, yet far too cool not to include:

Image
Image

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:09 am 
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Sizes look spot on. On large Zeppelins, the chaos AI harbinger is ~18cm long ish (well my scratchbuilt 1 is anyway, shouldn't be more than 5mm or so out) so i suppose there is room for BIG stuff in the skys...mind you the 18cm harbinger does look a bit out of place.

...out of interest, what is that Zeppeling made from, and is it hollow? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:16 am 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
...out of interest, what is that Zeppeling made from, and is it hollow? :D


It is plastic

It is Hollow

It will be on it's way this week :D

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:24 pm 
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I gave these guys a run tonight against a Black Legion Drop and Daemon summoning force. (Lost 2-0 - BTS and T&H, 3rd turn)

The army I took was as follows:

Chaos Squats + Annihilators x3 + Doombane
Chaos Squats + Annihilators x2 + Doombane
Chaos Squats + Zharr + Zhatan (BTS)
Engines of Hahvaht (T2) x4
Ludus Golyan + Large Mutants
Ludus Golyan + Large Mutants
Slave Caste
Malorc Slavers
Ur Cannon
Rezahk
Rezahk


Thoughts:
- Chaos Squats in general are slow - something that I am just going to have to deal with - after 1 game, I am no expert by any stretch
- Annihilators - wondering whether they should really have a 3+ FF more in line with Chaos Havoks - they are pretty much the same thing in regards to shooting
- Engines (T2) - very good. These got smashed by a drop however the fear aspect alone is quite useful.
- Ludus Golyam - 1 of these destroyed opponent's bike unit while the other was hit by a Pin Point attack and killed along with all it's passengers

Zigganook: As part of the unit, this suffers from the War Engine rules regarding transports. Especially in the fact that if you board it, it cannot move that turn. It makes the whole formation quite defunct after the initial disembark. So you either stay in it and risk a formation dying, or come out and risk your ability to move across the table. When I look at it, the Thunderhawk leaves the table and Imp guard Valkyrie can 'run over' troops to pick them up. This is effect is a one use item. I guess I am going to have to use it more and decide. While the WE DC is useful, the movement restrictions for a force that has real trouble moving is quite severe.

- Slave Caste - My opponent spent 2 rounds trying to wipe this unit off the table. Good for soaking up shots - If you take a step back and consider this unit, it is not really that great - even for it's points. If I gave them LV transports, it may make them a viable option. At present, a simple clipping assault followed up with some fire when broken should see this unit play no part in a battle.

- Malorc Slavers - Orks with a mass of shooting. The spacecraft bombardment took these guys out (they were already broken) so not much of an opinion at this time
- Ur Cannon - Good if I could remember that 4BP gives you 2 templates. Need another game and maybe with 2 of these
- Rezahk - placed the fear of beealzebub in my opponents armoured units. The 4DC is useful and easily offset by the 5+ AR and critical which destroys it. May review this unit after another game or two.

Overall my opponent liked the force and I found it pleasant to play (despite failing several activations). It has the potential to hit hard from afar and has a 'loud bark'. Upon playing them, you come to realise that the formations, while massed or WE aplenty, have some serious flaws. You have to work with a lack of leadership, war engines as transports, and very specialised units who do one thing OK and everything else below par or not at all. Definatly not a force for someone that likes to always win. For the sake of a challenge however, I am liking the force so far. A few things worry me (Chaos Squat detachment effectiveness), however I am placing that down to inexperience at this time.

Next I may trial the moles or even the CS Hellbore. Upon looking at the list and what to take, Sentinels and Damburi appear to be units that are a hard choice to justify.

Anyone else have any thoughts on the list (if you have read it or tried to make a list)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:16 am 
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Some thoughts, excuse the all the questions, (just trying to think stuff through rather than being antagonistic :P )
frogbear wrote:
Zigganook: ... This is effect is a one use item.


My question would be, does this matter? Are gladiator salves meant to be elite drop troops sufficiently organised and designed to drop, fight, redeploy, drop, fight, redeploy etc multiple times and independently in a battle? or are they dropped into the midst of the enemy, high on combat drugs and left to cause havoc as a one shot fire and forget? Essentially, do the Chaos Squats care what happens to the gladiators, I mean they are gladiators but also still just slaves. If the chaos squats don't really care, then they should be one use (more like a drop pod even) if the chaos squats do care and the gladiators have the degree of tactical combat training then maybe the zigga should be more like a T-hawk.

Moving on from that, with EA having separate lists for everything it seems, what is this CS list meant to represent and related to this what is the wider extent of CS actions? Is this a CS home planet defence list, a CS slave raiding list, a CS general battle list? Where do the CSs get their slaves? Do they capture them themselves in raiding sorties to local systems, when doing so do they attack small villages or besiege hole cities/hives (certainly have the artillery for it) or do they stay at home in their mines and trade for slaves with Dark Eldar/Chaos/corrupt imperial governors?

If CS are now dwindling in numbers and heavily reliant on slaves and perioeci orks/damburi (I keep typing this as drambuie ??? ) then having the core CS formation as an 8 stand block of pure CS would be dangerous. What about a more diverse TOE for CS formations/upgrades, such as allowing the formations to take salves, gladiators, mutants and malorks as upgrades (maybe even SoH as dreadnaught style upgrades)? The CS formations would use them as a meat shield. At the moment the list has multiple races in it but all very separated, does this reflect CS society, are the salves completely out of sight (and therefore deployed separately on battlefield) or are they ubiquitous in CS dwellings, mines, cities, always weighting hand and foot on their masters?

Eg the CS detachment would, selection wise, be more like an ork warband with slaves etc as points per stand extras. Formations could get big but then you’re more expensive and clipable, and some form of slave transport would be needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:13 am 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
Some thoughts, excuse the all the questions, (just trying to think stuff through rather than being antagonistic :P )
frogbear wrote:
Zigganook: ... This is effect is a one use item.


My question would be, does this matter? Are gladiator salves meant to be elite drop troops sufficiently organised and designed to drop, fight, redeploy, drop, fight, redeploy etc multiple times and independently in a battle? or are they dropped into the midst of the enemy, high on combat drugs and left to cause havoc as a one shot fire and forget?


I came up with the same type of thinking on this. They are definitely a one shot deal, so fine as they are

Quote:
Moving on from that............. CS slave raiding list, a CS general battle list? ..........besiege hole cities/hives (certainly have the artillery for it)


I see it as pretty much a battle list that performs larger sieges outside of strong Imperial influences - more like the outskirts of Imperial space where they are pushing the boundaries to an ever expanding universe. It also should be representative of the large scale fighting evident beyond an 'eye of terror' universe where they would be free to conquer at will where possible.


Quote:
do they stay at home in their mines and trade for slaves with Dark Eldar/Chaos/corrupt imperial governors?


I think the list can also represent this.

Quote:
If CS are now dwindling in numbers and heavily reliant on slaves and perioeci orks/damburi....then having the core CS formation as an 8 stand block of pure CS would be dangerous. What about a more diverse TOE for CS formations/upgrades, such as allowing the formations to take salves, gladiators, mutants and malorks as upgrades (maybe even SoH as dreadnaught style upgrades)? Eg the CS detachment would, selection wise, be more like an ork warband with slaves etc as points per stand extras. Formations could get big but then you’re more expensive and clipable, and some form of slave transport would be needed.


Now these are the kind of ideas that make the list more than just the champion that presents it. This is a really good idea. At present I have formations stuck at '8' with replacements for upgrades rather than additions. This has assisted me to keep the transports priced appropriately as well. There is no reason why Chaos Squats could not have formations with Malorcs or Sentinels as well as the Annihalators that they currently have. The main question I have then is do I keep the formations at '8' or go as high as 10 or 12 (surely not higher!!)? Also, note that other races would have their ground movement reduced due to the squat 10cm footslog and I would introduce piecemeal vehicle selections.

Damburi are really a class of their own (arrogant?) and I just do not see them reducing themselves to fight side by side with other races. Am I wrong in this? Gladiators could be a liability if placed in directly with the Chaos Squats as well.

Let me know your thoughts on unit sizes and I will get onto a draft for a possible revision. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:54 pm 
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frogbear wrote:
Damburi are really a class of their own (arrogant?) and I just do not see them reducing themselves to fight side by side with other races.

100% agree, arrogant and aloof, whatever their reason for allying with the CS im sure they justify to themselves that they are in control and owe them little. Should stay as their own unit only.

Quote:
Gladiators could be a liability if placed in directly with the Chaos Squats as well.

My angle on this is that the Zharr and Tyrants would own personal packs of gladiators and the prize specimens amongst them or those who have gained special favour with their masters through their exploits would be taken into battle with them. Like a knight keeping a stable and going into battle with his best charger, the CS take their best gladiators into combat with them as part of their personal band.

Would you consider a slave upgrade for Ur cannons? representing the slaves working it/moving it under the direction of CS engineers and gunners. As slaves have no FF/shooting i assume they can't be used to take suppression, removing one of the objections to this.

As for formation size, i fear i lack the game (EA) experience to fully understand its implications. Given the lower initiative of CSs, the lack of standard ranged CS detachment attacks and the weakness of some of the upgrades (slaves, which are removed as soon as the formation breaks anyway ) would formations of 14 be much of a problem? Assuming that only 'pure' chaos squats can go in the hellbore this is another limit.

Eg if it was:

Chaos Squat Detachment, 1 char, 8 CS 200pts
Upgrades:transport, annihilators, zharr, doombane, favour
      up to 6 of the following in any combination:
          0–4 slaves ?15pt/e?
          0–2 gladiators ?15pt/e? (should these get better CC? currently the same as regular slaves)
          0–4 malorks 25pt/e
          0–2 SoH ?50pt/e?
          ?? wardogs ??


Should slaves added to CS formations gain 'disposable'?
It seems that malorcs can currently take moles as transport, is this intended?

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:47 pm 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
My angle on this is that the Zharr and Tyrants would own personal packs of gladiators and the prize specimens amongst them


That is not a bad angle of thought actually. It could go two ways. I could either have a CS formation that has upgrades as required, or I could adopt an Imp Guard Structure and have a 'Zharr formation' that can have gladiators as part of their detachment. Hmmm *brain starts to click over*

Quote:
Would you consider a slave upgrade for Ur cannons? representing the slaves working it/moving it under the direction of CS engineers and gunners.

Not sure what this would really add..?

Quote:
As slaves have no FF/shooting i assume they can't be used to take suppression, removing one of the objections to this.


Hmmm. Would you wish to weaken the Ur Cannon by allowing the BM to be earned from AP weaponry? Aircraft would also have a field day. Not too sure about this.

Quote:
As for formation size, ..... the lower initiative of CSs, the lack of standard ranged CS detachment attacks and the weakness of some of the upgrades (slaves, which are removed as soon as the formation breaks anyway ) would formations of 14 be much of a problem?


Leave that one with me. I also want to make sure that they remain affordable. If Imp Guard can do it, no reason why it could not be done here as well.

Quote:
Assuming that only 'pure' chaos squats can go in the hellbore this is another limit.


Yeah, I want to keep some arrogance to the squats in that they would not deem other races fit to use their 'signature' war engines

Quote:
Eg if it was:


I will start working on ideas and point costings

Quote:
Should slaves added to CS formations gain 'disposable'?


Ah yes, the old beastmen in the Berserker formation idea. I have to make sure that disposable is not overly used or abused. Currently the wardogs have it and therefore have a niche. Slaves also have their place with the 'explosive collars'. Slaves could easily fill both roles - do we want to see this however? It could be tested. I would like to see the other ideas gain momentum first (mixed formations with Malorcs, gladiators and SoH) before introducing so many new ideas and additions. Let's 'park' this one for now and see if it is required after we look at the other ideas that you have.

Quote:
It seems that malorcs can currently take moles as transport, is this intended?


Not really sure which way to go with this. I did mention possibly introducing AV transports much like 'Trukks' for Malorcs and possibly slaves (?). I could introduce these and then remove Malorcs from Moles. It would make sense.

So many ideas! This is awesome Apoc. Now I am never going to get any sleep as the ideas are going to keep me awake for many nights to come .. thanks for that :P

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:58 pm 
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Quote:
0–2 gladiators ?15pt/e? (should these get better CC? currently the same as regular slaves)


Well better CC would place them comparable to Assault Marines in combat which I do not really want - I would prefer them to be a step back.

Explosive Collars explode and create traumatic damage. Rather than go with Ignore Cover, Disrupt, or any further rule, we deemed that 4+ would be representative, and that the 6+ roll gave it flavour. So in effect, a gladiator bearing down on you or a Slave running at you with a wild expression and then suddenly exploding in your face are pretty much the same thing IMO. I hope that we have captured that in the stats....?

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:04 pm 
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Quote wars! :o

Quote:
It could go two ways. I could either have a CS formation that has upgrades as required, or I could adopt an Imp Guard Structure and have a 'Zharr formation' that can have gladiators as part of their detachment. Hmmm *brain starts to click over*

Yep, i had been looking at the IG list structure as well.

Quote:
Hmmm. Would you wish to weaken the Ur Cannon by allowing the BM to be earned from AP weaponry? Aircraft would also have a field day. Not too sure about this.

Yeah have to admit i might not have thought it through very far, it was mainly fluffy.

Quote:
Currently the wardogs have it and therefore have a niche. Slaves also have their place with the 'explosive collars'. Slaves could easily fill both roles - do we want to see this however? It could be tested.

Yes, I was concerned that it might make war dogs redundant, but i think that it would still show the slaves disposable 'role' in CS society.

Id vote for a slave/ork transport, trukk/even 'cattle' trukk for slaves. Make trukks ork/slave only and remove Zhatan and mole from malorks?

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