http://www.players.tacticalwargames.net ... fileId=112

Link is for Jan 2010 version (latest PDF)

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Real-life commitments are delaying the new PDF for the Black Legion+ Lost and the Damned so here are the latest changes for the lists until we get a PDF up. These changes are intended to stand until the next review - at least 1 year, and allow focus to switch to the cult and Red Corsairs lists.

These include the collated typos from the previous version

SPECIAL RULES
‘Range’ of all-faction hatred reduced to 15cm

UNITS
Remove Stalker
Daemon assault engines - remove INV
LoB - remove INV
Plague Tower - remove INV
- should be 3+D3
Subjagator should be CC3+ FF5+
Chaos Spawn should have D3 extra CC attacks
Demagogue should have CC5+
Add Chaos Altar
Daemon Prince should only have +1 EA in FF
Land Raider refers to Chosen rather than Terminators in transport notes
Rhinos - need Chosen added to transport notes

BLACK LEGION LIST
Terminators - change to 275 for 4 Terminators+Lord Character, 0-2 additional terminators for 60pts each
Raptor Cult - change to 175 for 4 Raptors+Lord Character, 0-4 additional Raptors for 35pts each
Upgrades - Remove Stalker
hell blades should be 225 for 3
Helltalons should be 175 for 2
　
LATD LIST
Remove free pact for Coven
Add Daemonic Pact to upgrade list - 25pts

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Uhm. Ok. This would have been nice to know before I went and froze the lists.

So RA on the Daemon Engines and remove INV

Any real reason for making the LoB that little bit weaker? It is quite a fragile unit for the cost.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

PMed - I made the original change before it was highlighted to me that this had been a conscious design decision rather than an oversight as I had thought

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

What's the reason for losing the INV on the daemon engines? I quite liked it as a concept.

Do we realise that by taking INV save off the LoB, it is now defenceless against TK weapons?

Are you sure we want to do this?

At 400 (425 in the World Eaters) points, you would at least want that little save I would think.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

As I said, in the previous version I added the INV save to the non-shielded daemon engines that didn't have it as i thought it was an oversight that they didn't already have it like other daemonic units. Neal then flagged up that it was a previous design decision to not combine RA+INV on the units. Therefore I decided I was mistaken to add it - and had no pro-feedback on the change.

If it was a change people liked - and it is a change that has relatively little list effect beyond a slight boost for the assault engines and LoB, I can reinstate it before the PDF is forthcoming.

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Hena

Seeing that you are in the same 'boat' as the rest of us, I guess you would not mind bumping the cost of the Plague Tower to 350 points to take into account the better SR?

That is (of course) with the loss of INV to make it susceptible to TK weapons and to 'tow the line' with the rest of us.

Afterall, we would not want one list to have a 'power boost' over another....

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

I think that the LoB and the Plague Tower should have a 'last defence' against a TK weapon - even if it is just a 6+. 325 - 425 points is enough of an investment to have one unit with such a minor defence.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

I did like the Inv save change as a general "this is magical" fluff thing.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Meh. I am not convinced this will really make a difference, but I'm not strongly opposed.


Does "Daemon engines" only refer to the Khorne Daemon Assault Engines where the Invulnerable Save was added on top of RA? Or are you talking about dropping Invulnerable Save across all engines?

Either way, an invulnerable save increases the firepower required to destroy a unit by about 20% across the board. That's in the ballpark of 10% price difference (on the low side, probably). So, the question is whether these changes are reflected in the point costs. For example, the LoB is 400 points, so was it underperforming and only worth 350-375 before Invulnerable was added, or should it be increased to 425-450 after the save?

Should the Raptors be 0-4 additional Raptors for 45pts each or for 35pts each?

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

I second that question. Removing Invulnerable Save from ALL Daemon Engines could have quite some impact on all Chaos lists.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/