Tactical Command
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World Eaters Development - Updated 14th June 2010
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=18529		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:39 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters Development - Updated 14th June 2010
NOTE: This thread has been moved onto the next stage of development.

Please click on the following link to go there: viewtopic.php?f=82&t=18599

All links here are being made redundant.

==================================================

Hi Everyone

I am going to release this now as I have been asked for an update by more than one person recently and want to make sure that there is one central place to gain the list rather than multiple copies I have sent out so far (that may not be up to date). So if you are reading this and have a list I have sent you in the past or recently, please view below for the most updated version.

Upon taking on the World Eater Champion position, I was asked to review the list and include the Khorne Berserkers from the Black Legion list into this list.

In doing this, while at the same time working on the Emperor's Children (EC) project, I came across some realisations to army structure as well as overall design. This has meant a total overhaul of the previous list produced and something more in line with the other work I have been doing. This includes the total removal of 'Indomitable' and re-aligning formations to be balanced, affordable, and competative. I still wonder how they will function after turn 2 of any game, yet that is for playtests to show.

This list also includes a mixed formation, yet where it did not work with the initial EC, it will with the World Eaters due to the role of the base troops, as well as the greater number in the base formation. All I ask is that you give it a chance as the alternative (8 units - all fearless) is not something I am interested in producing.

I have spent weeks if not months now working on this list and reviewing stats and points. As always, if you do have any feedback, please feel free to give it.

Enjoy!

Download File: World Eaters V3.3 Play Document
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
Possible future changes:
- Bike Retinue:
Change to 225 first 5 units and +25 per extra unit

- Removal of : Restricted: World Eater Terminator, Possessed, and Chosen formations are restricted to one for every 1000 points played.



Possible future review
- Khorne Juggernauts
- World Eaters Dreadnought
Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
Cool, thanks for all the hard work frogbear :)

I was going to have a push towards finishing my WE army...then found id lost all my red and gold paints :-\ Possessed will be fun to make ;D
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
Apocolocyntosis wrote:
Cool, thanks for all the hard work frogbear :)

I was going to have a push towards finishing my WE army...then found id lost all my red and gold paints :-\ Possessed will be fun to make ;D


Yeah, I will make sure this list get's moving along. If the current format stays, hopefully close it out for a freeze by any deadline that presents itself.

As for possessed, I have been buying up Vampire Count Grave Guard helmets to get the wings. Three to a base, and some head conversions should do the job quite nicely.

Cheers.....
Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
talking of wings, is their (possessed) 15cm speed on the stats sheet intentional? sort of assumed they were raptor equiv for the list.
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
Apocolocyntosis wrote:
talking of wings, is their (possessed) 15cm speed on the stats sheet intentional? sort of assumed they were raptor equiv for the list.


That is an error. There are always some that slip through the cracks :(

It should be a MV of 30cm.

I have updated this and reloaded the initial link. Thanks for being so observant

Cheers...
Author:  fattdex [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
Daw no Harbinger! I was looking forward to finally using my model ;-) Although not surprising as the last worldeaters list I had downloaded was 1.3

Thanks and will have a read over now.
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
fattdex wrote:
Daw no Harbinger! I was looking forward to finally using my model ;-) Although not surprising as the last worldeaters list I had downloaded was 1.3

Thanks and will have a read over now.


Well that is never to say that it could never be included.. ;)

I liked it as well. The cost is prohibitive in this list at the moment and unless things come down, it may well never be worth taking at the risk of low activations and smaller units.

Let's see how we go with the list so far.

Cheers dude :)
Author:  Honda_reloaded [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
I'll take a looksy as well. After a flurry of modeling activity during the crash, I put the Angry Red Men down for a bit, but I'm definitely interested in seeing where you are headed with this.

Cheers,
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
Always happy to get feedback ;)
Author:  Dobbsy [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
I must be missing something. Any reason why the WE legionaires will break and die (due to BM) like normal troops now (without Indomitable)? Khorne Berzerkers get Fearless at least. World Eaters now just look a bit average because there's nothing to keep them in the fight and they get destroyed like other infantry. I'v always felt WE are your nutters nutters and a step beyond Khorne Berzerkers.
Author:  frogbear [ Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
Cost is the big killer here.

Adding Indomitable at this stage with the Fearless guys will bump the retinue up significantly. So much so that it will be low activations for no real gain. I am relying on their numbers and attacks to get them through a battle, and hoping that the cheaper cost will allow some leway in either an extra activation or some upgrades which will help.

With some playtest data to show that the squads need a boost in some way (which may very well be the case), I can go two ways:

- add Indomitable
- reduce the cost of the retinues

The 2nd option is my preference as it allows less dice rolls and rules. Rather than stick to the year of development that took place, I made the decision to take what I learned and try and make it work differently. It is a major change, yet one for the better I think. So essentially, Indomitable is an option if required in the future. You just have to ask yourself, do you want more activations and Berserkers on your table, or just a few expensive and 'hard' units? I know for myself that the former provides a much more enjoyable game.

Also note that Legionaires are better than Khorne Berzerkers in CC. The Terminators are also a step up from them again. It has all been a balancing act that has taken alot of time. I will also release a discussion on some findings on unit numbers and why I think an army such as the World Eaters can survive in something akin to their current state. I do hope however that I can start to justify some cost decreases, as from experience, the Core Retinue at 275 points and 375 for a drop is a far stretch to be competative.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
More formations is alway handy I guess. Hmm. I dunno, it just seems that the focus in a list called World Eaters should be, well, the World Eaters - so they should be more ... characterful?? or something. I can see game design has a say in this but how is it the WEs have no psychology at all now(excepting Blood rage)? Khorne zerkers have fearless so it seems odd that WEs aren't being they are Khorne's favoured.I know they hit harder than Khorne zerkers but they seem to lack the psychology-fluff-etc that the Khorne zerkers now seem to have, like they're just another infantry type rather than the centrepiece.

Still, as you say, time will tell.
Author:  frogbear [ Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
Just remember, Khorne Berserkers are the end of the line. There is no evolution after these guys, there is only death.

To create something beyond them is just not feasible or interesting.

I am confident that changes will be made in the future. Playtests should show the defecit. I am just wary of going with changes without some data.

Cheers...
Author:  Ares [ Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
The split Berzerker Retinue is fine with me. The WoE must have some degrees of madness within their ranks, or they would not be able to plan high tech interplanetary assaults. The way I see it, some of them go absolutely bananas in combat, whereas others who are not quite as far gone fight with more tactical acumen. The Blood Rage rule simulates WoE impetuosity in an excellent manner, imho.

Overall I like the list. I certainly has made me enthusiastic enough to buy some Chaos Hordes and to start converting daemon engines from scratch and the like. Hopefully I'll be able to post some actual play test with painted miniatures in the foreseeable future. Good work, Frogbear!
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