Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

Defiler
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=17498		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Steve54 [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Defiler
Defiler

As BL playtest changes
AV   20cm   4+  4+   3+
Battlecannon   75cm   AP4+/AT4+
Reaper Autocannon  30cm  AP4+/AT6+
Twin Heavy Flamer  15cm  AP3+
Battle Claws   Assault Weapons  MW, Extra Attack (+1)

Fearless, Infiltrator, Invulnerable Save, Walker

In addition Defiler Pack Formation added - 4 Defilers for 300pts

WHY
40k Defiler has lost barrage - which is a large unit change, in addition reflecting thsi change pushes the defiler into acting more consistent with its background - a CC unit rather than a artillery piece. Im addition the stats are altered slightly to make it more of a CC weapon - less FF, infiltrate.
Defiler pack added as fluff genreally has them fighting in packs, it actually means the unit will be used more often and it is a nice new formation for the list.
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Defiler
Quote: 

Twin Heavy Flamer  15cm  AP3+


Just wondering what happened to 'Ignore Cover' on this weapon?


Quote: 

In addition Defiler Pack Formation added - 4 Defilers for 300pts


I have tested and played this unit in the World Eater List at both 300 and 275 points. It is worth 275 points bought as a unit.
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Defiler
Quote: (Hena @ Dec. 24 2009, 15:58 )

I'd like to see 15cm move on this to allow garrisoning. If there is infiltrate it can get to CC easier anyway.

:disagree:

Bought as singles for a scout unit they are fine for such a purpose. Infiltrator is far more effective however and justified for their role.
Author:  Mephiston [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Defiler
Add one as an upgrade and you can still garrison, its just the formation that can't. Which is probably ok.
Author:  Man of kent [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler
I agree with removing the barrage for fluff reasons (and, indeed, for consistency with other Battlecannon units) but one thing to bear in mind is that many people have got used to using these as a rather nice blitz guard and counter artillery unit, that said it's not really what they're intended for and one feels that the only had BP beforehand as a balance issue...as always though my feeling is that a list is usually more defined by what it can't do and so removing the BP and thus restricting the lists ability to have long range Blast Templates is a good thing.
R>
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler
I'd prefer to see these as garrisonable forces, so move 15 for me.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler
I've extensively tested the formation found in the Red Corsairs army list (which uses the BL playtest changes stats) (probably around 15 games using the formation).

At 300pts, they are too expensive, easily inferior to other ~300pt formations.

I would recommend testing them at 250pts.
Author:  frogbear [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 25 2009, 00:07 )

At 300pts, they are too expensive, easily inferior to other ~300pt formations.

I would recommend testing them at 250pts.

:oh:

Oh wow!  That is cheaper than I had them!!
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler
Well, I recon I've probably playtested the formation more than most, and it's my considered opinion that they're worth considerably less than 300pts, 275pts wouldn't make a great difference so I recommend testing at 250pts.

They're great as a deterrent formation that skulks around on your side of the board, able to threaten quite an area with their 40cm charge, but in open battle with their moderate armour save they tend to get killed fairly fast if they break cover.

I'd note that they'd be worth a lot less to me if they were 15cm move (garrisonable) as ranged shooting is not really their role, they want to scuttle up to the enemy as quickly as they can then lunge, and 15cm move would make them slower in this role, even if they did start a bit further up the board on turn 1.
Author:  Blish [ Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler
I would like to see them at 20cm and at 275pts.

:ooooo:
Author:  frogbear [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:46 am ]
Post subject:  Defiler
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 25 2009, 07:04 )

Well, I recon I've probably playtested the formation more than most, and it's my considered opinion that they're worth considerably less than 300pts, 275pts wouldn't make a great difference so I recommend testing at 250pts.

I am not disputing the playtests as I am sure you have a good handle on how these are used. What my concern is, that dropping the cost past 275 points really interferes with other units (both present and those being developed). With the array and abilities available to Defilers, dropping their points will raise questions of the effectiveness of other units which may call for price changes as well, thereby effecting needless change across various lists.

The other question that can be raised (which is combative - so apologies straight from the start) is the quality of the opposing general in your use of them. Are your opponents good and nail this threat before they are really effective? If this is the case then they are doing their job for the cost.

Making a unit that has 3 shots, a MW CC attack, 20cm move with Fearless, Invulnerable Save, Walker and Infiltrator, 250 points for 4 is a mistake in my opinion. I am just talking from a point of balance, that's all. If they were cheaper, I would definitely take more of them at the chagrin of my opponents   :grin:
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler
Quote: 

is the quality of the opposing general in your use of them.

Newbies to hoary grognards, they've underperformed against all.


As to my own quality I have gamed in 3 UK tournaments, and IIRC placed 4th, 5th and 10th IIRC, generally from a field of about 20 players.

So I might not have beaten the famous Dave, but I also don't own his dice...
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/