Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

Red Corsair Autocannons
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=17423		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Honda [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Red Corsair Autocannons
Can someone help me understand the rationale for the values assigned to the various autocannon types for RC units? So...

1. Chaos Terminators with 2 x Reaper Autocannons are AP4+/AT6+
2. Dreadnoughts with Twin Autocannons are AP4+/AT5+
3. Chaos Space Marine Autocannons are AP5+/AT6+
4. Havocs with 2 x Autocannons are AP5+/AT6+
5. Defiler with Reaper Autocannon are AP4+/AT6+
6. Desecrator with Reaper Autcannon are AP4+/AT6+
7. Blight Drone with twin Reaper Autocannon are AP3+/AT5+
8. Hellblade with 2 Reaper Autocannon are AP4+/AT6+/AA5+

All of which are the same range (30cm), except for the Harbinger, which I think there is already another discussion on, so I'll leave that one alone.

So, is the fact that the Reaper is twin barreled what gives it a boost? I may be one codex behind, but, I thought that the various Chaos autocannon were all S7 AP4 ROF2, regardless of their configuration.

Is that assumption correct?

If so, would that not mean that the base value for an "autocannon" would be AP5+/AT6+ and that then any twining upgrades or multiples would work from that base?

Thanx in advance!
Author:  eypyeash [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Red Corsair Autocannons
Quote: (Honda @ Dec. 15 2009, 11:59 )

1. Chaos Terminators with 2 x Reaper Autocannons are AP4+/AT6+
2. Dreadnoughts with Twin Autocannons are AP4+/AT5+
3. Chaos Space Marine Autocannons are AP5+/AT6+
4. Havocs with 2 x Autocannons are AP5+/AT6+
5. Defiler with Reaper Autocannon are AP4+/AT6+
6. Desecrator with Reaper Autcannon are AP4+/AT6+
7. Blight Drone with twin Reaper Autocannon are AP3+/AT5+
8. Hellblade with 2 Reaper Autocannon are AP4+/AT6+/AA5+

Hrm... clump 'em together and it ain't too bad a discrepancy.

1. Chaos Terminators with 2 x Reaper Autocannons are AP4+/AT6+
5. Defiler with Reaper Autocannon are AP4+/AT6+
6. Desecrator with Reaper Autcannon are AP4+/AT6+

The above show the 'base' stats for the Reaper.

7. Blight Drone with twin Reaper Autocannon are AP3+/AT5+

This one is a twin-linked version, so +1 to hit.

3. Chaos Space Marine Autocannons are AP5+/AT6+
4. Havocs with 2 x Autocannons are AP5+/AT6+

Again, the base for a regular autocannon (not the Reaper).

2. Dreadnoughts with Twin Autocannons are AP4+/AT5+

...and the twin version of the regular Autocannon.

8. Hellblade with 2 Reaper Autocannon are AP4+/AT6+/AA5+

This is the air version, not so good at hitting ground troops, but being airborne, it can shoot stuff in the sky pretty well.

While a Reaper may look like a regular twin-linked autocannon, it's... a really OLD twin-linked autocannon that excels at anti-personnel stuff. Back in the silly old days of 2nd edition 40K, Chaos got a bunch of cool stuff that made you not want to play the silly loyalists, like Reapers (even though loyalists has their assault cannons, which were like a short-ranged rapid-firing melta weapon that could do a ton of hits) and wacky super plasma guns that could fire forever, but would explode pretty regularly. Plus daemons. Anyway, nothing out of the ordinary here, I wouldn't think.
Author:  AxelFendersson [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Red Corsair Autocannons
All the stats for Autocannon and for Reaper Autocannon are imported from the Black Legion list.

The basic stat line for an Autocannon is the same as in the IG list: Range 45cm, AP5+/AT6+. Chaos Space Marines and Havocs have one and two of those respectively. A twin-linked Autocannon (as used on the Dreadnought) follows the usual pattern of improving the to-hit values of twin-linked weapons by one, giving Range 45cm, AP4+/AT5+.

At the time the Black Legion list was written, 40k treated a Reaper Autocannon as a twin-linked Autocannon. However, it was evidently decided that since it was the main weapon of Chaos Terminators, this would be too powerful when compared with the Assault Cannon carried by their loyalist counterparts. So their range was reduced to 30cm and their AT value left at 6+. This isn't that hard to justify, given that the weapon has its own name; if it were just a twin-linked Autocannon, it should be called that (Not that it means much, but older editions of 40k gave the Reaper its own profile that was distinct from the regular Autocannon, and more like a slightly toned-down Assault Cannon). Oddly enough, the current 40k stats have also reduced the range on the Reaper Autocannon, from 48" to 36".

The Twin Reaper Autocannons found on Decimators and Blight Drones thus apply the usual Twin-linked pattern to these Reaper stats, putting them at Range 30cm, AP3+/AT5+.

When mounted on aircraft, the weapons also gain an AA value.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Red Corsair Autocannons
Actually the current version of the Blight Drone don't has a Twin Reaper Autocannon it has "only" a single Reaper Autocannon. The currentlist youcandownload in the Red Corsairs thread should have the correct stats (soon to be updated to the new Blight Drone stats we agreed upon in the Blight Drone thread).
In Wh40k Reaper Autocannons are twin-linked by default (they are basically a sawed off twin Autocannon).

And yes with a 1:1 Wh40k to Epic translation a Reaper Autocannon would have 30cm AP4+/AT5+ (as single generic Autocannon is 45cm AP5+/AT6+). But to my understanding as the Black Legion armylist was created this was seen as to powerful (expecially compared to the 30cm AP5+/AT5+ of the Assault Cannon*).

All stats for the Red Corsairs are taken directly from, the official BlackLegion armylist (plus playtest changes) where units/weapons are chared.


*but curiously under my System the Assault Cannon translates to 30cm AP4+/AT5+ too  :p
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Red Corsair Autocannons
Quote: (AxelFendersson @ Dec. 15 2009, 13:51 )

All the stats for Autocannon and for Reaper Autocannon are imported from the Black Legion list.

The "Autocannon" and the "Reaper Autocannon" are two completely different weapons and only share the "Autocannon" part of their name, they have no commonality of stats in either 40k nor EPIC.

"Twinning" a weapon usually adds +1 to at least one aspect (AA/AP/AT) of the weapon, sometimes all.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Red Corsair Autocannons
Quote: (Chroma @ Dec. 15 2009, 17:15 )

The "Autocannon" and the "Reaper Autocannon" are two completely different weapons and only share the "Autocannon" part of their name, they have no commonality of stats in either 40k nor EPIC.

Sorry but this is wrong.

In Wh40k an Autocannon and a Reaper Autocannon are identical (S7, Ap4, Heavy 2). The only two differences are that the Reaper Autocanon has a shorter range (36" instead of 48") and that it is twin-linked.
Author:  AxelFendersson [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Red Corsair Autocannons
Quote: (Chroma @ Dec. 15 2009, 16:15 )

The "Autocannon" and the "Reaper Autocannon" are two completely different weapons and only share the "Autocannon" part of their name, they have no commonality of stats in either 40k nor EPIC.

Currently true. However, in 40k a Reaper Autocannon was treated as a twin-linked Autocannon from the beginning of 3rd Edition until the release of the current Codex. And even now that it has its own stat-line, the only difference from those of a twin-linked Autocannon are its range.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be the same in Epic. Personally, I'm fine with it having its own profile and not corresponding to a regular Autocannon.
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Red Corsair Autocannons
Quote: (BlackLegion @ Dec. 15 2009, 16:27 )

Quote: (Chroma @ Dec. 15 2009, 17:15 )

The "Autocannon" and the "Reaper Autocannon" are two completely different weapons and only share the "Autocannon" part of their name, they have no commonality of stats in either 40k nor EPIC.

Sorry but this is wrong.

Well, I got told!  *laugh*
Author:  Honda [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Red Corsair Autocannons
And I'm Ok with what you guys are explaining, it just wasn't jiving with what I knew about 40K autocannons.

No worries and thanx for the 'splainin.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/