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Mossinians; What to do?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=17352		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Mossinians; What to do?
So the Death Korps list is pretty much finished.
The White Scars list is done (I may see about including both the EpicUK and the NetEA versions of the list, so that the Supplement can be used by a wide range of players).

That leaves the Mossinians.

In their current state, we believe the Mossinians to be pretty well balanced, however it has been raised multiple times that they lack character... so...


Should the Mossinian list be re-jigged to be considerably different to the Siegemasters army list, in brief:

Remove Ragnaroks and Siegfrieds, and introduce Malcadors, Minotaurs and Valdors. Maybe some other minor ajustments too.


I've been resistant to this idea for a while, but people keep asking me why the list doesn't have Malcadors, why the list is so similar to the Siegemasters, etc. and I thought I'd put it to a vote.


So, should the Mossinians get themselves some Vraks-a-like tanks, or should they stay as-is?
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Mossinians; What to do?
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 07 2009, 13:36 )

Should the Mossinian list be re-jigged to be considerably different to the Siegemasters army list, in brief:

Remove Ragnaroks and Siegfrieds, and introduce Malcadors, Minotaurs and Valdors. Maybe some other minor ajustments too.

Sounds like a good idea to me.
Author:  Moscovian [ Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Mossinians; What to do?
To those who say it is too close to the Siegemasters, my retort is 'So what?'  If you feel the list is balanced and has a good enough distinction to be its own list, just be done with it.  When it comes to these things we can nitpick our projects to death and this is no different.  If you change it there will be a near endless stream of people wanting to make more changes, and more, and more, and so on.  You aren't going to run out of people who are interested in modifying any given list and this one is no different.
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Mossinians; What to do?
Good point, Mosc.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Mossinians; What to do?
It's a fair point, but if nobody at all is interested in actually using the list...?

If only a few people were interested, I'd leave it as-is, but I don't think anyone is actively playing Mossinians as they are, whilst lots of people are playing Death Korps.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Mossinians; What to do?
Alternatively maybe I'll just ignore this poll and keep it as-is as a testament to good gaming balance (Rug's work!) but poor games design (my own work!)!
Author:  Honda [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  Mossinians; What to do?
I've been looking at the list, but I came up with a couple of observations:

1. In and of itself, it's not a bad list. As you point out, it seems balanced, but as far as character goes, it seems like it's lacking something.

2. I have of late become very interested in the Vraks series and the major combatants and to be honest the Vraks renegade list is more appealing to me because it has "context" and I see its place in the bigger picture. That alone, is very attracting to me.

3. The modeling aspect of building an army is just as important to me as playing style. The Vraks renegades have lots of cool toys available to them (and more all the time) and importing over "Vraksian" vehicles sounds good, but in reality, instead of making the Mossinian list more attractive, I think the comments will shift to, "they used to be like the siegemasters, now they're like the Vraksians".

This may sound harsh, but after building Vraks, I would feel no need to then build Mossinians or even play their list.

In other words, it's really hard for you to get a win on this one.

So, what to do?

I'd say, leave it as is and chalk it up to experience.
Author:  GlynG [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:35 am ]
Post subject:  Mossinians; What to do?
First though was yeah that'd be cool, go FW tanks! Second thought considered that that'd just make the list a second rate Vrakian list no? Maybe best leave that it is (does have it'd own character in a way) and just concentrate of doing any slight tweaks to the lists, as appropriate (e.g. Long range Bombard).
Author:  Legion 4 [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:15 am ]
Post subject:  Mossinians; What to do?
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 07 2009, 18:36 )

KEEP Ragnaroks and Siegfrieds, AND introduce Malcadors, Minotaurs and Valdors.

My .02 cents ...  :cool:
Author:  fattdex [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Mossinians; What to do?
tbh, i have no idea who the mossinians are and the list is a bit siegemaster lite. it would be much more interesting personally to have the vraks renegade list in as it is at least very different to the other ones and has more established fluff and imagery.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Mossinians; What to do?
Well I'd use them :) They were attentionally added as a simple opponent for the deathkorps to fight as its really the death korps book, everythign else is secondary.

I don't think the white scars count as a list as they are already published and this is no different (didn't add tempests, shame on you!).

Isn't the other tanks more tech than the kv and tractor? Which are both meant to be able to be constructed in a gaza slum. You could add them but would they fit with your design philosiphy?

The land transport idea is interesting. I'm sorry I've been no good for playtesting but there is no way a infantry heavy army is playable on vassal, even after teh addition of fortifications, so no games for me before I return at Christmas.
Author:  GlynG [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Mossinians; What to do?
Quote: 

Fattdex: it would be much more interesting personally to have the vraks renegade list in as it is at least very different to the other ones and has more established fluff and imagery.

We couldn't really feature a Vrakian army not on Vraks as they are specific to that particular campaign and planet. I don't think the book should just be a complete derivative epic version of the Vraks Campaign either - better to do our own thing and people can try more the background here or there or both. I think Mossinians should stay, roughly as they are or sightly tweaked.

Quote: 

E&C: It's a fair point, but if nobody at all is interested in actually using the list...?

Actually Man of Kent has talked about plans to collect a Mossinian army, he likes using armies of older retro models rather than new stuff, so you've got at least one I know of.

Quote: 

Rug: My proposal to E&C was to bite the bullet and axe 'em! I know that would drop the book down to two races but it's potentially looking like each might have two lists (EUK & NetEA)

That's going to be true of a lots of races anyway in time though, blame Epic-UK for going their own way! Cutting the Mossinians as the opponents at this stage would require radical changes to the book. It would be great to see the book published at long last at month end, even if it's not completely perfect, and it's too late in the day to make big changes.

Quote: 

Rug: could the erreta and mods for Raiders 1st Ed also be put in the back?

That'll be an added in page sent out to previous purchasers I believe. Better to have a separate page than have this in Siege itself IMO.
Author:  Justiniel [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Mossinians; What to do?
I've voted no special opinion but I thing adding the transport is the best idea so far, I'm using my PDF as Seigers at the minute but also using it as Mossinians etc. The Vraks list has the tanks so there's really little need to include them here, unless they are particularly representative.
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