this list looked attractive when I first saw it a few years ago, but the numerous steel legion upgrades (russes, chimera, basilisks, deathstrikes, sentinels, hydras etc.) make it quite bloated. I think it should be trimmed so that the focus is low-tech IG/traitors. For example, trade in the more advanced stuff (AA, Arty units) for their platform versions. Otherwise, you're looking at IG with an Alpha Legion retinue attached.

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

I asked Steve about taking this one on a while back and he wasn't sure whether it was really needed as part of the netEA process to be honest.... unless I misunderstood him....

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That's a lamentable position IMHO

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He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

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If you're that concerned why don't you take the list on.

My view was that as a scenario or large/casual game army the list was fine and accurately represented the IA source but unsuited as a tournament list. Barring stat changes I can see no reason to alter it.

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@captPiett - I see what you're saying but they are also minus rough riders and super heavies which are both fairly iconic, and chimeras are harder to come by. Plus they have access to tanks that can garrison with the malcadors - that should make for a sufficiently different play style.

Considering how popular Krieg are it seems a shame that the Vraks list doesn't see as much attention.

Perhaps this is unsuitable for a tournament list but this feels very much like a decision made by fiat and without regard to the community wishes (whatever they may be). For an organization that prides itself on open design, not even laying out that the choice had been made (admittedly which is ultimately yours to make), let alone the reasoning behind why you chose (where choosing) to move this out of NetEA as being "unsuitable", simply makes me a sad panda. I'm not criticizing the choice that was made but am not happy with the way it apparently was done, that's all mate.

If I'm misreading the situation then great, enlighten me.

If no one else makes a decision to run with this, NetEA or as Fan-List I'll be happy to watch it to at least keep things in line with the general unit stats and trends and faction rules if they change ad incorporate feedback. In a perfect universe I'd really love to see GlynG take it on as he's really the most experienced with it and very much gets the Vraks fluff/feel.

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He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

What shadowy decision am I supposed to have made? The list is still in the compendium and tournament pack.

I haven't viewed it as a priority as
- no one is interested, This thread was dormant for 4 years
- it is fine as it is
- no changes to IA to affect it
- very few recent games
- not really suitable for tournament play

If somebody wants to run with it then great, but they haven't mentioned it in the last 4 years, if not then I'm not going to start for the reasons above.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Really? I don't think we've got to get off on that foot-I'm not attacking you.

From Kyuss' statement above I read it as "he wanted it-you don't think the list should be NetEA so the answer was 'no'". If that's my misunderstanding then thanks for correcting me and my statements above were made in error. Koolio?

I would like to know more about why this list is "not suitable for tournament play" as it is still not been elucidated. I'm simply curious. If we perhaps explain that then if someone in the future hypothetically takes this on perhaps that's something they can address in order to build a better list?

I think the lack of someone to actually Sheppard it has much to do with it languishing in relative obscurity. Perhaps I'm simply deluded Someone go poke GlynG

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He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

Just to be clear, is the next step from developmental, approved (for tournament play?)

I guess what I'm saying is if a list is approved, is that by definition, for tournament play?

I've really not looked at this list much - been meaning to for a while. As you say Steve, it seems fairly solid as it is - be interested to know what in particular isn't suited to tournament play to guide any future development though. Might be an easy win is all...

I know of someone else in Australia who has a Vraks army currently, I'm planning on starting to put one together starting around mid February after Cancon.
I'll be playing this army a bit, and all results will be coming back here. I'd love to see this picked up again.

The vraks army posted in my thread this week was collected based on this list.

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The siege of Vraks campaign had a huge amount of trench warfare, with the Vraks troops (who had built extensive defence lines) on the defensive for the majority of it. With that in mind, (and if there is someone able to change the army list) I would like to see trenches, gun emplacements, bunkers and barbed wire made available to the Vraks list in the same way it is available to the Baran Siegemasters list. Krieg has all of those defensive options and they did the majority of the attacking in that campaign. This would bring the Vraks list in line with the story of the campaign for which it was created. Having said that, I would leave out any other Chaos space marine formations, Daemons and Daemon engines that show up late in the campaign as these would throw the list completely out of whack. Also, those forces are already well represented by many other army lists such as the LatD and CSM.

One more addition could be made to represent the large numbers of poorly trained troops that the Vraks had on hand. A "Millitia" entry could be added to either the Core or Support sections of the list. They could have the same stats/cost as Cultists from the LatD army list, or their stats/costs could be tinkered with if people would prefer that. With people showing renewed interest in this, we could create a fun, themed and storyline based army list.

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"Live off the land. Go to find war. Kill wot comes close. The old ways are best." - Grodd, Ork Snakebite Runtherd

Sounds cool!

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Epic Commander of the Prassium Invasion Troops 214th Regiment
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This list (v1.06) is now available on the armyforge site, many thanks to Mard for taking the time to write it!

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It's basically the list for people who have come upon Malcador figures. Which isn't many, but there were a number of them on eBay recently so I'm not surprised to see the renewed interest.