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Summoning Demons in a BL army

 Post subject: Summoning Demons in a BL army
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:26 am 
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Hey guys, We've got a rather large game planned for the future and Im just trying to see if I understand correctly the mechanics of Summoning.

- I buy X number of points of a lesser demon pool and this is the maximum number of figures that I can have (240 points gives me 12 stands).
- A formation can only bring in the Affiliated Demons.
- 2D3 for the roll and a champion would make it 4D6.
- With hatreds, Nurgle can work with Slaanesh (and Khorne and Tzeentch) not lose the +1 initiative Modifier.
- An Icon allows the demons to stay at the end of the turn.

So I start with a standard BL retinue with a that has a champion and an Icon, it will have 4D6 dice for summoning and the Demons will hang around at the end of the turn. Yep?

So heres a few questions that I've come up with that Im just not too sure about:

- Do I need an Icon to bring Demons in or can any chaos unit bring them in?
- Does the Demon pool refresh each turn? If so, can I have more demons on the board than the maximum number in the demon pool if I had an Icon holding demons from leaving?
- A greater demon requires 8 points to summon, so I buy 800 points of greater demon pool? If so is this guy worth around the same as a Warlord (just wondering if he's worth it)?

Thats all I can think of ATM.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Summoning Demons in a BL army
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:40 am 
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Quote: (Cthulhu_gump @ 27 May 2009, 06:26 )

So I start with a standard BL retinue with a that has a champion and an Icon, it will have 4D6 dice for summoning and the Demons will hang around at the end of the turn. Yep?

So heres a few questions that I've come up with that Im just not too sure about:

- Do I need an Icon to bring Demons in or can any chaos unit bring them in?
- Does the Demon pool refresh each turn? If so, can I have more demons on the board than the maximum number in the demon pool if I had an Icon holding demons from leaving?
- A greater demon requires 8 points to summon, so I buy 800 points of greater demon pool? If so is this guy worth around the same as a Warlord (just wondering if he's worth it)?

Thats all I can think of ATM.

Cheers

All the first part is correct, in response to your queries-

- any chaos unit that can add a daemonic pact can summon daemons - the icon bearer is in addition to this. These are - BL retinue, raptors, bikes, chosen and forlorn hope

- No. The daemon pool will be the number of daemons you haven't summoned yet plus the number of daemons returned to it by units without an icon bearer (or with an icon that you have chosen not to keep in play) and then plus/minus any bonuses/debits from the strategy roll (1 - -D3 daemons, 6 - +D3 daemons). Killed daemons do not go back to the daemon pool either.

- No - the GD costs 100, the summoning points do not relate to pts cost. At 100 it is debatable whether it is worth it as even with 4 D3 it is still a gamble rolling 8 summoning pts (it is generally recommended to reduce it to 7). Also the only really useful formation to det the GD is with teleporting chosen

In my experience daemons take a lot of practice to work well but are very much worth the effort when it comes together

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 Post subject: Summoning Demons in a BL army
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:47 am 
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Quote: (Cthulhu_gump @ 26 May 2009, 22:26 )

Hey guys, We've got a rather large game planned for the future and Im just trying to see if I understand correctly the mechanics of Summoning.

1 - I buy X number of points of a lesser demon pool and this is the maximum number of figures that I can have (240 points gives me 12 stands).
2 - A formation can only bring in the Affiliated Demons.
3 - 2D3 for the roll and a champion would make it 4D6.
4 - With hatreds, Nurgle can work with Slaanesh (and Khorne and Tzeentch) not lose the +1 initiative Modifier.
5 - An Icon allows the demons to stay at the end of the turn.

So I start with a standard BL retinue with a that has a champion and an Icon, it will have 4D6 dice for summoning and the Demons will hang around at the end of the turn. Yep?

So heres a few questions that I've come up with that Im just not too sure about:

6 - Do I need an Icon to bring Demons in or can any chaos unit bring them in?
7 - Does the Demon pool refresh each turn? If so, can I have more demons on the board than the maximum number in the demon pool if I had an Icon holding demons from leaving?
8 - A greater demon requires 8 points to summon, so I buy 800 points of greater demon pool? If so is this guy worth around the same as a Warlord (just wondering if he's worth it)?

Thats all I can think of ATM.

Cheers

1 - Right
2 - Right
3 - 2d3+2d3 = 4d3 with Champion
4 - Right, but see below*
5 - Right

6 - You need to purchase a daemonic pact. You need a champion if you want to be able to roll enough points to summon a greater daemon.
7 - No
8 - 100 pts per greater daemon, and see below*

* Take a look at the recommended playtest changes here:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums/ ... 82;t=13462
Among other things it recommends dropping the rules on hatred and reducing the summoning costs of greater daemons to 7.





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 Post subject: Summoning Demons in a BL army
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:30 am 
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Yep, that all makes alot more sense now.

One more question, as I said earlier we are looking at a rather large game and I was wondering what the thoughts were on using multiple Greater daemons (assuming players agree)?

My thought is that if you had a normal game of say 3,000 to 4,500 you're allowed 1 greater Daemon on the board at one time, would you then say at 6K you'd be able to have 2 and at 9K you'd be able to have 3 and so on...

So our game is looking at around the 10K per player, meaning that if I spent 300 points, I could (if I was lucky :vD ) have 3 Greater daemons on the board at once.

What I'm concerned of is that something like this might overwhelm the board. What do others think? Let me know any thoughts and suggestions

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 Post subject: Summoning Demons in a BL army
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:37 am 
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The rules state you can only have one GD of each faction in play at any given time. So up to 4 is fine by the list, as long as they are all different.


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 Post subject: Summoning Demons in a BL army
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:59 pm 
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Daemon Pool - Just to make sure this point is clear, you don't pick the kind of daemon when you buy them.  The daemons off board in the pool are undefined.  The type of daemon summoned is decided only when you bring them on board.

Same thing if daemons leave the board and return to the pool.  If you bring 4 Plaguebearers onto the board and they go back to the pool, they become "blank" or generic LDs.  The next time you summon daemons, they can be Beasts or (if to a different faction formation) Daemonettes.

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 Post subject: Summoning Demons in a BL army
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:03 pm 
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Quote: (nealhunt @ 27 May 2009, 13:59 )

Same thing if daemons leave the board and return to the pool.  If you bring 4 Plaguebearers onto the board and they go back to the pool, they become "blank" or generic LDs.  The next time you summon daemons, they can be Beasts or (if to a different faction formation) Daemonettes.

The only caveat to the "blanking" is with Greater Daemons which, I believe, keep any damage they've taken, even if they come back as a different kind later.

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 Post subject: Summoning Demons in a BL army
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:40 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 27 May 2009, 14:03 )

Quote: (nealhunt @ 27 May 2009, 13:59 )

Same thing if daemons leave the board and return to the pool.  If you bring 4 Plaguebearers onto the board and they go back to the pool, they become "blank" or generic LDs.  The next time you summon daemons, they can be Beasts or (if to a different faction formation) Daemonettes.

The only caveat to the "blanking" is with Greater Daemons which, I believe, keep any damage they've taken, even if they come back as a different kind later.

Which is frankly a bit weird, though I do see the need for it.

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 Post subject: Summoning Demons in a BL army
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:01 am 
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Hey guys, just another quick question, with troops that are dropping down in drop ships, do they get to summon on the turn they arrive or do they summon in the next turn?

Might sound silly, just want to make sure of the answer for an upcoming game :yes:

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 Post subject: Summoning Demons in a BL army
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:04 am 
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They can summon on the turn they arrive - when they activate not when the spaceship activates and drops them

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 Post subject: Summoning Demons in a BL army
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:18 am 
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Thanks, that makes sense.

Sorry, but one more Question  :D... do you round up or down on the summoning roll? Say you roll up a total of 7 on the 2 dice, does it become 3 or 4?

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 Post subject: Summoning Demons in a BL army
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:28 am 
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D'oh!

I mean... yeah I knew that :whistle: :blush:

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