Tactical Command
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Defiler Formations
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=15638		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  daemonkin [ Thu May 21, 2009 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler Formations
Hi guys,

Just wondering which variant lists have defiler formations? I used a unit of 3 last week in my Thousand Sons force without realising they were an illegal formation and only available as an upgrade to a formation.

If there are lists with these as formations is there some balance reason why they were left out of the 1kson list?

Incidentally, I used them at their upgrade points value - 225 for 3.

D.
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Thu May 21, 2009 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler Formations
Emperors Children let you have a formation of 6 Defilers. It makes them worth taking.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu May 21, 2009 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler Formations
Zombocom came up with a good idea for a Defiler formation for the Khorne-themed Traitor Guard list, 4 Defilers, with an option to add one Brass Scorpion.
Author:  zombocom [ Thu May 21, 2009 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler Formations
Hell, the official lost and the damned list has defiler formations...

The Black Legion list defilers aren't great because they're artillery that has to be upgraded to a formation, like griffons. Lord Inquisitor's test stats based on the more recent 40k stats make a better upgrade due to losing the BP for killiness and speed.
Author:  daemonkin [ Thu May 21, 2009 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler Formations
Do they still retain their AA ability. The deceivers (1kson defilers) are the only ground-based AA I have available.

D.
Author:  zombocom [ Thu May 21, 2009 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler Formations
Normal Defilers don't have AA in any list that I know of, but LI's test rules for the Black Legion include the "Desecrator", a Jervis approved AA Defiler.

Either way, in my Khorne Guard list I used LI's stats at 300 points for 4, with the option to add a Brass Scorpion to the formation.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu May 21, 2009 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler Formations
The AA defiler was added with Jervis' blessing when the NetERC were looking for alternate AA options to the Obliterator.

It hasn't made it into the Official lists at this point in time.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu May 21, 2009 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler Formations
I can't recall seeing any Defilers taken in Black Legion armies at EpicUK tournaments, though I've only been to three.
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu May 21, 2009 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler Formations
Quote: (daemonkin @ 21 May 2009, 15:58 )

Do they still retain their AA ability. The deceivers (1kson defilers) are the only ground-based AA I have available.

D.

As others noted, the AA defiler variants are an addition the various chaos champions came up with due to the lack of other ground AA options and JJ thought it was a good enough idea to tell us to go ahead with it.

I haven't re-evaluated the TSons version in light of the recent Black Legion proposed changes, but the Deceiver will definitely retain AA in some form or fashion.

I never considered adding them as a support formation.  How did they perform?  I suspect with the tendency towards high points/low activation counts in the list that a 225 point formation would be attractive.

I'd love to hear a recap of the army performance overall.  Even just a summary would be useful.  There has been no real feedback since the last round of comments you posted almost a year ago.
Author:  daemonkin [ Thu May 21, 2009 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler Formations
Quote: (nealhunt @ 21 May 2009, 16:31 )

I never considered adding them as a support formation.  How did they perform?  I suspect with the tendency towards high points/low activation counts in the list that a 225 point formation would be attractive.

I'd love to hear a recap of the army performance overall.  Even just a summary would be useful.  There has been no real feedback since the last round of comments you posted almost a year ago.

:whistle:  Well I didn't take any photos last week despite 2 almost completely painted armies  :shutup:

I am in the middle of a write-up on my heresy campaign here but will hopefully get another game tonight vs orks and/or marines.

My list (for the most part) is there - maybe a few points over due to another player coming along with some PH Alpha Legion.

Will take pics tonight.

D.
Author:  zombocom [ Thu May 21, 2009 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler Formations
Quote: (Rug @ 21 May 2009, 16:19 )

Quote: (zombocom @ 21 May 2009, 15:52 )

Hell, the official lost and the damned list has defiler formations...

The Black Legion list defilers aren't great because they're artillery that has to be upgraded to a formation, like griffons. Lord Inquisitor's test stats based on the more recent 40k stats make a better upgrade due to losing the BP for killiness and speed.

I know players who consider one in their blitz guard/ any objective guard a must as counter arty. The number of times I've lost Deathstrikes and Manticores before they can fire (or at least suffered the BM)......

Seen quite frequently at tournaments, supprisingly useful! I hate facing them!

I said they were not great, but I didn't say useless :)

I prefer the assaulty new stats though.
Author:  Couchmonster [ Thu May 21, 2009 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler Formations
I'd love to see Defilers make an appearence in the Daemon World list as an undivided daemon engine support formation. It'd give a better flavour to the Undivided aspect of the list rather than just hellcannons, furies & unmarked muties  :whistle:
Author:  Chroma [ Thu May 21, 2009 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Defiler Formations
Quote: (Couchmonster @ 21 May 2009, 16:58 )

I'd love to see Defilers make an appearence in the Daemon World list as an undivided daemon engine support formation. It'd give a better flavour to the Undivided aspect of the list rather than just hellcannons, furies & unmarked muties  :whistle:

I can certainly put them in there...
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