Tactical Command
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World Eaters v1.01
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=14624		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Dobbsy [ Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
Hi all
Here's the update to the WE list I mentioned in the v1.0 thread.

EDIT - OK here's the newest version with the error adjustment.

Version 1.0.2

If you guys can please provide any feedback in playtests that would be awesome.

Cheers!
Author:  Lord Inquisitor [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:00 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
I'm still wondering if it might not be cool to take away the Armoured Companies (these don't seem very "bezerker" to me) and make predators and land raiders an upgrade to the retinues. That way it gives the retinues some sort of tactical flexibility other than just "Charge!" In Epic terms this means you can use a retinue to drop BM or even long-range fire to some degree.

I'm a little concerned about the Bloodrage "if no enemy are in charge range, double towards the nearest enemy". It seems a little good - there doesn't seem to be a downside to failing an initiative test! I would say that they must make one move towards the nearest enemy (or just perform a normal Hold reaction, which is probably the KISS approach). In any case, I would make the note that the formation receives the BM for failing as normal (applied before the assault). This is redundant but it is worth making it crystal clear!
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:11 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
Quote: (Lord Inquisitor @ 20 Jan. 2009, 01:00 )

I'm a little concerned about the Bloodrage "if no enemy are in charge range, double towards the nearest enemy".

I'd get rid of the "Double" part of this, as it means they can move and shoot... stick with the "must engage nearest enemy" bit, that's cool and flavourful... even if the enemy is out of range, just means they make a single move towards them and stop... bogging down in rage.

Definitely specify that they get the Blast marker for failing the Action Test.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
ahh damn! I've gone and put the wrong copy in the pdf! Bloodrage was adjusted to something very similar in my correct copy! So I'll change it to what you guys have mentioned which seems a good idea. I tend to keep the multiple versions I have, to make sure I keep all the ideas that pop up. That way I can copy and paste em if needs be. Unfortunately I've pdf'd the wrong version  :sigh:

edit incoming

I'm still wondering if it might not be cool to take away the Armoured Companies (these don't seem very "bezerker" to me) and make predators and land raiders an upgrade to the retinues. That way it gives the retinues some sort of tactical flexibility other than just "Charge!"
Well the retinues already can take LR upgrades.... I kept the armoured company in for those who like a bit of pure heavy metal in their armies and to give the feeling of mish-mash. I would think the Armoured coy would still give a tactical flexibility when needed i.e when having to deal with enemy armour.

Still if consensus is that the Armour should go in preference for retinue-only upgrades I'm happy to oblige....
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
Er... looks like you forgot to re-attach the file in the first post...
Author:  Dobbsy [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
Here is the wording I had in my correct Blood Rage rule:

The followers of the Blood God live to slay in his name, and there are few as bloodthirsty, favoured and homicidal as the World Eaters. Consequently, this rage makes these units somewhat difficult to control in combat. Any formation in a World Eaters army (excluding Chaos Navy or spacecraft) that fails its Action Test (see 1.6.2 of the Epic: Armageddon rulebook) receives a Blast Marker and must make an Engage action if there are enemy units within engagement range of any of the units in the formation. If not, their Hold action must be a single move towards the nearest enemy formation. In both cases the formation receives a Blast Marker for failing their action test.


Lord I's idea added in italics.

Does this suit your view more Lord I?

Er... looks like you forgot to re-attach the file in the first post...
I need to fiddle with formatting so stay tuned everybody. Won't be long
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
Why not just make it an "engage towards the nearest enemy"?  

They're both single "moves", except in infiltrators are involved, so they accomplish the same thing without the "hold" restriction.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
Wouldn't it give infiltrators a bonus if they get to engage "out-of-range" enemy on a hold action? I'd rather err on the side of a negative to start with. Am I misunderstanding your idea Chroma?
Author:  frogbear [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:00 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
Quote: (Chroma @ 20 Jan. 2009, 01:42 )

Er... looks like you forgot to re-attach the file in the first post...

...what he said.

Also, units cannot take predators as upgrades?

I am looking to playtest this list on Thursday against a trial squat force. I will let you know how I go....I will play the bloodrage as single move towards the nearest enemy.

Side Note:
1. I agree with Lord Inquisitor regarding the armoured companies.
2. Cannon's of Khorne can garrison. Oversight or are people ok with this?  (45cm MW4+)
Author:  Dobbsy [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:36 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
I am considering changing the cannon's speed to 20cm to avoid this issue actually. What are people's feelings on this? I basically transplanted the Hellfire cannon into this list but am wide open to suggestions about the problem. 20cm move seems simplest but I am concerned people will then moan about them being too fast.  :sigh: Would a 20cm move and a points increase to 350-400 seem prudent? I ask this because I think 200 for 4 might be a bit too low for a 20cm vehicle with a 75cm MW.

Was the original Hellfire cannon ever discussed regarding the 75cm MW? I'm not aware of any at this point.
Author:  frogbear [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:39 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
dobbsy

you have taken off the link and not replaced it. Is it coming back up?
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:41 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
Quote: (Dobbsy @ 20 Jan. 2009, 01:57 )

Wouldn't it give infiltrators a bonus if they get to engage "out-of-range" enemy on a hold action? I'd rather err on the side of a negative to start with. Am I misunderstanding your idea Chroma?

Acting as a normal engage is precisely what I mean!

Unless the formation consists solely of infiltrators, they'll be limited by unit coherency.  In addition, the negative of having a Blast marker will already be inflicted on then... something you really don't want if the nearest enemy doesn't have any at all!

The other negative for infiltrators, is that such a large "forced" movement will likely take them out of support range of allies and into the killzones of the enemy.

I'd suggest giving it a try!
Author:  Dobbsy [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
you have taken off the link and not replaced it. Is it coming back up?

LOL! Did you miss my two previous posts about that mate?

EDIT - formatting needed for error (see discussion below) - List will be posted soon

I need to fiddle with formatting so stay tuned everybody. Won't be long


The other negative for infiltrators, is that such a large "forced" movement will likely take them out of support range of allies and into the killzones of the enemy
Hmmm. Ok, I will put it in for now and see how it goes.

Is this something more in line with your proposal Chroma:

The followers of the Blood God live to slay in his name, and there are few as bloodthirsty, favoured and homicidal as the World Eaters. Consequently, this rage makes these units somewhat difficult to control in combat. Any formation in a World Eaters army (excluding Chaos Navy or spacecraft) that fails its Action Test (see 1.6.2 of the Epic: Armageddon rulebook) must make an Engage action towards the nearest enemy formation. The formation receives a Blast Marker for failing its action test as normal.

Also, any view on the cannons issue?
Author:  frogbear [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:45 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
Quote: (Dobbsy @ 20 Jan. 2009, 05:01 )

Also, any view on the cannons issue?

Put the cannons to 20cm for now I would think to stop the garrison.

Also bump their points up to reflect this. Testing this on Thursday so need to have a list by tomorrow to make the force up if at all possible.

Thanks
Author:  frogbear [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  World Eaters v1.01
Just an idea from the World Eaters v1.0 thread. There was a lot of discussion about the fearless rule.

If that became a point of disagreement in the future, what do you think about a rule for Frenzy being something like:

Frenzy: In the first round of a hand to hand combat the WE marines player may re-roll
his 2d6 dice (have to roll them both, cannot keep one and re-roll the other).

This would still allow them to become broken if they lose the combat, yet gives them the potential for a hard hitting punch when they enter combat. This even takes account if they get charged as the rules allow for a counter-charge.

What are people's thoughts? Is this too powerful or a weak replacement for fearless?
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