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Death Guard discussion

 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 2:49 pm 
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I´m not a DG Player myselfe but i got one in my gaming group.

He´s ok with all DG beeing stubborn, but the latest change to cut the rhinos from the standard formations is not ok for him.

I can understand that, as there are no mobile formations left, it´s a pain to play with only foot sloggers, an if he´s facing my Eldar he will never get me into range of his marines, i just blow them away with my Titans from afar.

I think they should get the rhinos back, perhaps one formation in Rhinos for one footslogging formation, but not affecting the limit for other support formations (like Black Guardians in the Uthwe List)

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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:50 am 
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Quote: (Tilioch @ 23 Apr. 2009, 08:00 )

so all I could engage was the super heavy, and so I did, and this got a sound beating going critical, without hurting any terminators but destroying two nearby Russes. But then the supporting fire came…

Note if you destroy the attackers or defenders in the attack the assault ends with no supporting fire taking place, but bm's still given to formations in support range from the losing side.

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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:18 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 01 Jun. 2009, 12:50 )

Note if you destroy the attackers or defenders in the attack the assault ends with no supporting fire taking place, but bm's still given to formations in support range from the losing side.

Yeah, we did it a bit wrong there, we always seem to forget something =)


And I've played a few games with Hena's modifications and find them far better than the original, but I've also made my own small variant by allowing a armored company as a support choice and counting terminators as formations for getting support formations.
Tilioch's Modified v2

As for the nurgel's rot, daemons accualy do get it, if you take a look at V2 of the army list, there is an * at all de daemons, and the notes say that those units do get Nurgle's rot.
On the other hand, I don’t really see the use of it as it does not come to effect very often, and fewer still are the times something actually dies from it. When we play I usually forget that I have it at all...

Oh, and I don’t see the point of having those short ranged havocs... I've soot with them 1 time in 5 or 6 games, and only thanks to having put them in transports (Will post a report of this, but I've forgotten to complete it the last few weeks)

And as a last thought here, nice to see some movement in this thread =)

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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:54 pm 
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I can understand the thing about not having an armored company, but I do like the feel about it, you still need to have a lot of infantry to be able to field one, and that is some expensive formations you need as well. And I do like to have some tanks in an epic game.

But on the terminators I think you are right, perhaps they shouldn’t give support units, but I'd really like some way, that does not cost me 300+ points, to get hold of some support formations. A future blight drone-type formation could be it.

The Havoc formations then, I can see you point in doing a thing like that, and using them to place some BMs and support later, I haven't been able to do this as that would be to many points in one place for the games I've played. And they do cost 50 points more something I haven't gotten out of them I think, they are nice with an extra attack if you get to shoot with them, and they are as good in FF as the others in CC, but they don't have any fearless units as the normal retinue, something that have saved me a few times...

On another note, how should the stubborn be handled? The squats are for the moment using a totally different rule under the same name, should it be changed here to use the squat rule, or should it be renamed to something else (hardboiled?) and use the current rule in the DG list?

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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:51 pm 
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Why should Death Guard players be forced to play their army more infantry based than any other chaos player? Seems unfairly limiting IMO - Forge World sell kits for both Death Guard Rhinos and Land Raiders and the inclusion of both Rhinos and tank formations seems fine to me.


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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:24 pm 
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Maybe Land Raiders only? Big, heavy, easy to corrupt tank an all. Set formation of 7 of them? (I'd like an 'elite' formation of 4 infantry and 3 LR.)

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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:20 am 
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Quote: (GlynG @ 01 Jun. 2009, 14:51 )

Why should Death Guard players be forced to play their army more infantry based than any other chaos player? Seems unfairly limiting IMO - Forge World sell kits for both Death Guard Rhinos and Land Raiders and the inclusion of both Rhinos and tank formations seems fine to me.

It's a fluff thing. The index astartes article states they're heavily infantry based and the old legion rules limited their rhino use.

That said, it doesn't gel at all with the idea of not taking heavy weapons. Why plague marines can't have heavy weapons is entirely beyond me - all the artwork depicts them toting heavy bolters.

While an infantry-heavy army could be workable, an infantry heavy army with no man-portable heavy weapons is really rather tough to work with.





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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:22 am 
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Quote: (Lord Inquisitor @ 02 Jun. 2009, 00:20 )

While an infantry-heavy army could be workable, an infantry heavy army with no man-portable heavy weapons is really rather tough to work with.

I think they use *disease* and such to weaken the enemy before they even get to fight...

Which gave me a great idea for a "historic refight" involving Death Guard, for "EPIC: Total War"!

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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:42 am 
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Na, it's just a case of game balance and fluff getting in the way of each other. The fluff came first - the death guard are heavily infantry based - but for 40K balance reasons were denied heavy weapons (presumably otherwise they'd just hang back and not take the fight to the enemy). Now the rhino-restriction has disappeared and they're almost exclusively seen on 40K tabletops in rhinos or (more commonly these days) land raiders.

So either way, we're justified in making them more mechanised or giving them more heavy weapons and I'd rather stick more to the fluff than the 40K mechanics.


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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:03 am 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 02 Jun. 2009, 00:22 )

Quote: (Lord Inquisitor @ 02 Jun. 2009, 00:20 )

While an infantry-heavy army could be workable, an infantry heavy army with no man-portable heavy weapons is really rather tough to work with.

I think they use *disease* and such to weaken the enemy before they even get to fight...

Which gave me a great idea for a "historic refight" involving Death Guard, for "EPIC: Total War"!

Have you read the FW Vraks books Chroma? (naughty copies can be found online, though I have and like the printed copies too) They have them using chemical warfare and disease weapons on the enemy.

Plasma seems to clean and hot. I'd much more imagine them having rusting diseased heavy bolters and the like.





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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:41 pm 
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Quote: (GlynG @ 02 Jun. 2009, 11:03 )

Have you read the FW Vraks books Chroma?  They have them using chemical warfare and disease weapons on the enemy.

Yeah, that's kinda what generated the idea... and it inspired an idea for how to represent that in EPIC: Total War in a manner other than a shooting attack.   :agree:

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