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Death Guard discussion

 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:42 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 18 Jul. 2008, 10:14 )

All cult marines should be fearless as they are so in Black Legion list. Those stats can't be changed.

Nothing to say that they can't be changed but its highly unlikely.

This does present an issue though. Can we have the same unit with two different sets of stats?

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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:19 pm 
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This does present an issue though. Can we have the same unit with two different sets of stats?


I think we can but shouldn't just for simplicity.

The idea of a Retinue being composed only partially of Fearless troops is nice. That allows there to be other Legionnaires that are Marked, but not totally Cult yet.

Death Guard Chaos Marines
Inf move 15cm Armor 4+ FF4+ CC4+
2x Plasmaguns 15cm AP5+/AT5+
Bolters (small arms)
Notes: And They Shall Know No Fear (why reinvent the wheel?)

World Eaters Battle Brethren
Inf move 15cm Armor 4+ FF4+ CC4+
Reaper Autocannon 30cm AP4+/AT6+
Bolters (small arms)
Notes: Dunno, LordI gave scout to the EC Legionaires anything work here?

Something like that as a staging point, perhaps.

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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:40 pm 
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Well, my cop-out solution is that they aren't the same unit, they just look similar and have extremely similar names. So you have Black Legion "Plague Marines" and "Death Guard Plague Marines". Death Guard Plague Marines also have plasma guns, which the BL counterparts do not.

Armoured companies were removed as the Death Guard place such a high importance on foot-slogging infantry (which, they obviously don't give heavy weapons to  :oo: ). So the heavy armour such as Land Raiders and predators are attached to the infantry formations themselves. It reinforces the slow feel to the list and is also an attempt to make Death Guard formations actually work.  :sulk:

Will have to look at the war engines. I'm not updating this list until I've got the BL changes ready for playtesting...


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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:46 pm 
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ATSKNF is a rules gimmick that makes them treat BMs at half effectiveness more or less, and it has the advantage of already being tested and easy to remember.

And if the concept of Nurgle Marines is that they are resolute under fire and not prone to tactical errors you may as well call a spade a spade.

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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:14 pm 
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Quote: (scarik @ 18 Jul. 2008, 18:15 )

Neal you cleverly took half of my argument to refute. The point I was making is that Plague Marines should be Fearless, but Deathgaurd shouldn't be.

Ah.  I wasn't cherry picking.  I just missed what you were getting at.

I have no problem with a distinction between farther gone "plague marines" being Fearless and the comparatively more normal "death guard marines" being normal/stubborn/TSKNF/whatever.  It's the same name-game Lord_I is using now but mixed Fearless/non-Fearless formations are much less problematic.

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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:20 pm 
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Quote: (pixelgeek @ 18 Jul. 2008, 18:17 )

Quote: (nealhunt @ 18 Jul. 2008, 08:40 )

All-Fearless lists are problematic for several reasons.

Not to sound glib but perhaps the answer is to not have an army list that is composed of Fearless units?

There is nothing to say that a Deathguard army wouldn't have normal CSM troops in it as well.

I believe that is the solution that has been used for TSons and EC, where the Fearless is most prevalent.  Both have very valuable, arguably essential, components that are not Fearless.  Mixed Fearless/non-Fearless formations have been used to tone down the predominance as well (like the non-Fearless transport options).

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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Just make Chosen termies Fearless and normal plague marines stubborn!
And drop Plaguelords points so you can fit in some Hellblades!
Oh and i would love if DG could get some Havocs as upgrades (like in BL list)


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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:36 pm 
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Big support to Henas ideas. That way Death Guard would have those Plague Marines that they should have and some "new recruits" (for the sake of playability (so they would not all be fearless)). (I have big Nurgle army (Plaguelord, 2 Repugnant, 3 Fester, 8 Contagion Towers, 3 Plague Towers, 5 Nurgle Defiler, 7 Land Raiders, 6 Predators, 8 Chosen Terminators, 30(?) stands of DG etc etc) and hopefully I get to field them someday (again, stopped using them when Death Guard started to field wussier marines than Black Legion).

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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:58 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 21 Jul. 2008, 07:47 )

Core changes:

Death Guard Retinue
One Death Guard Lord character upgrade and four Death Guard Chaos Marine and 3 Plague Marines units.
300 points

Death Guard Chaos Marine as Death Guard Plague Marine in the v2 list
Plague Marines as in Black Legion

Wait a sec, basically, you have real plague marines and death guard plague marines in the same formation?

That seems horribly confusing to me.


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 Post subject: Death Guard discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:02 pm 
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Ah Neal, thanks for clearing that up.

I like the retinue  and agree that its no different than adding Cult Marines to a Black Legion Retinue.

A full Plague Marine Formation should be possible and perhaps one with no Plague Marines (the Mech would count for that one, yes?)

Also, how do you get names to appear in quotes with this board? I cant figure it out.

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