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[fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=12073 |
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Author: | Magarch [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
I finally decided to post my own version of the Lost and the Damned army list (called Renegade Army List). This is the one I use to play my games and test some little things. Note that there is now only one special rule for this list - I like to keep it plain simple and stay close to the core rules. You like it or you hate it. I want to be clear that this list is just a fan list, done in a very subjective point of view. This is how I see the Lost and the Damned, but that's not the official version ! Since I can't make a PDF, here is the beast. Hope my english won't be too bad... Renegade Army List Strategy rating : 2 Initiative rating : 2+ Core Formations 0-1 Arch Heretic Upgrade one Chaos Aspiring Champion, Daemon Prince or Magus in the army to an Arch Heretic. The upgraded unit then gain the Supreme Commander special rule. Cost : 25 points Chaos Cult One Chaos Aspiring Champion or Magus unit and eleven Cultits or Mutants units. You can choose any mix of the last two as long as it adds up to eleven units. Cost : 200 points 0-1 Warp Rift The Lost and the Damned player may replace one of his objective markers in his half of the table by one Warp Rift. The Warp Rift functions as an objective for rules purposes, and thus may not be attacked or destroyed. Cost : 50 points Chaos Cult Upgrades (each upgrade may be taken once per chaos cult formation) Big Mutants Replace up to six Cultits and/or Mutants with an equal number of Big Mutants. Cost : 20 points/unit Chaos Altar Add a Chaos Altar to the cult. Cost : 150 points Chaos Spawn Add up to three Chaos Spawns to the cult. Cost : 25 points/unit Cultists or Mutants Add up as many Cultits and/or Mutants as you want to the cult. Cost : 15 points/unit 0-1 Daemon Prince Replace the Magus or Chaos Aspiring Champion with a Daemon Prince. You may take this upgrade only once per army. Cost : 50 points Defilers Add up to three Defilers to the cult. Cost : 75 points/unit Icon Bearer Add an Icon Bearer character upgrade to an unit chosen about the following : Cultist, Mutants, Big Mutants, Chaos Aspiring Champion. Cost : 15 points Traitor Fire Support Add up to four Traitor Fire Support to the cult. Cost : 25 points/unit Traitor Flak Add up to thwo Traitor Hydras to the cult. Cost : 50 points/unit Traitor Griffon Battery Add up to three Traitor Griffons to the cult. Cost : 35 points/unit Traitor Hellhound Squadron Add up to three Traitor Hellhounds to the cult. Cost : 50 points/unit Traitor Tank Squadron Add up to threeTraitor Leman Russ or Traitor Demolishers to the cult. Cost : 70 points/unit Transports Add Land Transporters and/or Traitor Chimeras to the cult. Cost : 10 points/Land Transporter, 25 points/Chimera Note : You must take exactly enough Land Transporters and/or Chimeras to carry all infantry units that can be transported. No spare transports may be ? left over ? if it is possible to avoid it. Daemonic Support Formations (you may take one Daemon Support Formation per Chaos Cult in your army) Contagion Tower Battery Four Contagion Towers Cost : 325 points Daemonic Assault Engine Pack Four Daemonic Assault Engines Cost : 275 points Daemon Knight Pack Four Daemon Knights Cost : 275 points Daemonic Legion Eight Lesser Daemons units. Cost : 175 points Upgrades - Add up to four Lesser Daemons units for +25 points/unit - Add one Greater Daemon for +100 points Defiler Pack Four Defilers Cost : 275 points 0-1 Greater Daemon One Greater Daemon Cost : 100 points Silver Tower Flight Four Silver Towers Cost : 325 points Traitor Support Formations (you may take one Traitor Support Formation per Chaos Cult in your army) Traitor Armoured Company Six Traitor Leman Russ Cost : 400 points Traitor Artillery Battery Four Basilisks Cost : 325 points Traitor Marauder Bombers Two Traitor Marauder Bombers Cost : 300 points Traitor Roughriders Six Traitor Roughriders units Cost : 150 points Traitor Sentinel Squadron Four Traitor Sentinels Cost : 100 points Traitor Thunderbolt Fighters Two Traitor Thunderbolt Fighters Cost : 150 points |
Author: | Magarch [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
Special Rules Daemon Units with the Daemon special rule also follow the Disposable and Invulnerable Save special rules. Formations with only Daemon units are always kept off the table and must enter in game by using the Teleport special rule, with the following exceptions : - All units must be placed within a 15 cm radius of at least one of the following ; Chaos Altar, Icon Bearer, Magus and/or Warp Rift. - The formation automatically pass the test for Teleporting, and thus never gain Blast Markers from it. If it?s not possible to put the whole formation on the table (for example, because there?s not enough room in the 15 cm radius or there is no Chaos Altar, Icon Bearer, Magus and/or Warp Rift on the table), then it can?t enter in game this turn and must try again the next one. Formations with only Daemon units always gain a +1 modifier to their action test roll when attempting an Engage action. Last but not the least, Daemon units are banished back to the warp if their formation is broken. In that situation, they count as losses for rules purposes. Units Since most ot the units are the same than in the Lost and the Damned list, I?m just posting those I modified ? some are just another version. I use the last ones in my games for test purposes. Chaos Aspiring Champion Type : Infantry Spd : 15 cm Ar : 4+ CC : 4+ FF : 4+ Weapon - Bolters (15 cm, small arms) - Heavy stubber (30 cm, AP6+) - Power weapon (assault, Extra Attack +1, Macro Weapon) Notes : Commander, Leader Magus Type : Infantry Spd : 15 cm Ar : 6+ CC : 5+ FF : 5+ Weapon - Psychic powers (30 cm, MW5+ AND 15 cm, small arms, Extra Attack +1, Macro Weapon) Notes : Commander, Inspiring, Invulnerable Save Icon Bearer Type : Character Spd : - Ar : - CC : - FF : - Notes : Invulnerable Save Cultists Type : Infantry Spd : 15 cm Ar : - CC : 6+ FF : 5+ Weapon - Heavy stubber (30 cm, AP6+) Chaos Spawn Type : Infantry Spd : 20 cm Ar : 3+ CC : 3+ FF : - Weapon - Mutations (assault, Extra Attacks +D3) Notes : Fearless Chaos Altar Type : War Engine Spd : 15 cm Ar : 4+ CC : 4+ FF : 4+ Weapon - Arcane Technology (45 cm, D3x AP4+/AT4+/AA4+) CD : 3 Critical : The Chaos Altar is dragged into the warp and destroyed. All units within 5 cm suffer a MW6+ attack from the backlash of the raw power of the warp. Notes : Fearless, Inspiring, Invulnerable Save, Reinforced Armor, Walker Daemon Prince Type : Infantry Spd : 30 cm Ar : 4+ CC : 3+ FF : 4+ Weapon - Daemonic weapon (assault, Extra Attack +2, Macro Weapon) - Psychic powers (30 cm, MA5+ AND 15 cm, small arms, Extra Attack +1, Macro Weapon) Notes : Commander, Fearless, Invulnerable Save, Jump Pack, Leader, Reinforced Armour Land Transporter Type : Light Vehicle Spd : 30 cm Ar : 5+ CC : 6+ FF : 6+ Weapon - Heavy stubber (30 cm, AP6+) Notes : Transport (may transport one Big Mutants unit or two of the following : Chaos Aspiring Champion, Cultists, Magus, Mutants, Traitor Fire Support) ? this is exactly the same for the Chimera transport ability. Lesser Daemon Type : Infantry Spd : 15 cm Ar : 5+ CC : 3+ FF : - Weapon - Daemonic claws (assault) Notes : Daemon, Infiltrators Greater Daemon Type : War Engine Spd : 30 cm Ar : 3+ CC : 3+ FF : - Weapon - Daemonic weapon (assault, Extra Attack +2, Macro-Weapon) CD : 3 Critical : The Greater Daemon and all Lesser Daemons within 5 cm are banished back to the warp and count as being destroyed for rules purposes (no save for that, sorry). Notes : Daemon, Inspiring, Jump Pack, Walker Defiler Type : Heavy Vehicle Spd : 20 cm Ar : 4+ CC : 4+ FF : 4+ Weapon - Battle cannon (75 cm, AP4+/AT4+) - Twin reaper autocannons (30 cm, AP3+/AT5+) - Heavy flamer (15 cm, small arms, Extra Attack +1, Ignore Covers) - Battle claws (assault, Extra Attack +1, Macro Weapon) Notes : Fearless, Invulnerable Save, Walker Silver Tower Type : Heavy Vehicle Spd : 20 cm Ar : 4+ CC : - FF : 4+ Weapon - Arcane cannons (45 cm, 3x AP4+/AT4+) - Beam of power (60 cm, MW5+) Notes : Fearless, Invulnerable Save, Support Craft |
Author: | Nicodemus [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
Where is Plague Tower? |
Author: | Magarch [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
(Nicodemus @ Mar. 20 2008,14:11) QUOTE Where is Plague Tower? I removed all Daemon War Engines, in fact, because I like to give to this list a "war engine lack" in general. I believe that those should be in Renegade Legion Army List, like Death Guard, World Eaters, and so on. I just kept "general" daemon engines, one for each god and the Defilers for Undivided Chaos. This list is rather "generic" in its spirit. That's also why I discarded the faction rule. |
Author: | Nicodemus [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
Darn. My LatD is heavily Nurgle and I have 3 Plague Towers (one compeletely crapbuilded) and 8 Contagion Towers. So it seems that this is not the LatD for me. I did not spend few months on scrapbuilding Plague Tower for not to get to use them. ![]() |
Author: | Magarch [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
(Nicodemus @ Mar. 20 2008,14:38) QUOTE Darn. My LatD is heavily Nurgle and I have 3 Plague Towers (one compeletely crapbuilded) and 8 Contagion Towers. So it seems that this is not the LatD for me. I did not spend few months on scrapbuilding Plague Tower for not to get to use them. ![]() Well, you can use Plaque Towers as "count as" Chaos Altars. ![]() By the way, my list is far from being perfect. This is mainly used to test my summoning system, and I just made some other changes around. Its greatest strength is certainly the fact there is only one special rule for the army, that is quite simple to use. ![]() |
Author: | BlackLegion [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
I like your summoning system. It removes the unrealistic meat-shield effect ![]() |
Author: | Crabowl [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
I don't like the Artillery Battery that has so nicely doubled its effective power and has more durability due to not breaking on the first casualty for no extra relative cost. Those things are nasty even with 3 basilisks and having four is just abusing the game mechanics. They're like that in the original list as well but is there any other reason to having 4 of them in a formation other than abusing the game mechanics? Just seems kinda fishy that suddenly they learned to use 4 basilisks instead of 3 when they moved over to chaos. Daemon summoning as formations seems nice and might not even be too good considering they use tellyport and their strategy rating sucks. However, I don't like warp rifts just because many IG armies have a weakness with speed and this sort of removes it as the army can be deployed on the other side of the table and some daemons pop out to prevent it from being captured by the enemy - it's risky to go near it as the summoned daemons can always surprise with a strategy roll and if you don't go near it you might not be able to break the daemons when they do come. Compared to the original this is much better as you get to play sooner without having to read two pages of special rules and then try to remember them. The stripped daemon engines work fine for me - I don't have the minis and never would ebay them anyway so good riddance. I could even live with the dreaded chaos baneblade instead of the old daemon engines ![]() |
Author: | Magarch [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
(Crabowl @ Mar. 20 2008,15:39) QUOTE I don't like the Artillery Battery that has so nicely doubled its effective power and has more durability due to not breaking on the first casualty for no extra relative cost. Those things are nasty even with 3 basilisks and having four is just abusing the game mechanics. They're like that in the original list as well but is there any other reason to having 4 of them in a formation other than abusing the game mechanics? Just seems kinda fishy that suddenly they learned to use 4 basilisks instead of 3 when they moved over to chaos. That's a big concern, indeed. In all of my games, the four basilisks were always very good (to say the least). I already thought of increasing the points for artillery (not sure about the Contagion Towers since I didn't test them for now), but then I'm not sure it's the right answer. The "formation of four" is quite a constant in this list, however. You can as well ask yourself why the Traitor Armoured Company suddenly drop to six when they turn to the Chaos Gods. But it's a sure thing to say that four is a good number for small formations in Epic, and even better when it's artillery with 1BP to each unit. So then, dropping them to three for Contagion Towers and Basiliks ? They will be surely much less destructive that way, for sure... However, I don't like warp rifts just because many IG armies have a weakness with speed and this sort of removes it as the army can be deployed on the other side of the table and some daemons pop out to prevent it from being captured by the enemy - it's risky to go near it as the summoned daemons can always surprise with a strategy roll and if you don't go near it you might not be able to break the daemons when they do come. That is a risky tactic, because the summoned daemons follow the Teleport rule with just a few exceptions - and that means they can't be placed within a zone of control. If you feel sneaky, you play a scout formation in last and put it all around the Warp Rift while being sure all of your zones of control are within the 15 cm radius. Next turn, no daemon can Teleport by using the Warp Rift, since there's no room to place them outside of zones of control. ![]() So if you are used with it, it's not so difficult to counter it - or at least, predict where the daemons can appear and be ready when they will do. Compared to the original this is much better as you get to play sooner without having to read two pages of special rules and then try to remember them. The stripped daemon engines work fine for me - I don't have the minis and never would ebay them anyway so good riddance. I could even live with the dreaded chaos baneblade instead of the old daemon engines ![]() Thanks. ![]() About the "renegade" baneblades, I thought about including them into the list, even with a 0-1 limitation...But I didn't do it for now, feeling they have already quite a lot of choices. Maybe I'll do after a few tests, just because I really like the baneblade model, but I'm not sure it's really necessary. We'll see. |
Author: | Magarch [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
(BlackLegion @ Mar. 20 2008,15:00) QUOTE I like your summoning system. It removes the unrealistic meat-shield effect ![]() Thanks. I already thought to use the same for an alternate Chaos Space Marine list...But there are Chaos players at my club that don't want to leave their precious meatshields and would see that as an "agression". Since I'm the only one playing the Lost and the Damned, I decided to begin with them to show them that yes, Daemons can also be used in another way. ![]() Feel free to test it with others armies if you want, though. It doesn't ask too many changes in fact ; you just need to decide which unit can summon daemons. I thought of Chaos Sorcerers and of course Icon Bearers, but I'm also thinking about some Titans in a future Chaos Titan Legion... |
Author: | Irondeath [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
I?d advise both you and BL to pick another name besides "Alternate" BL/LatD, for the simple reason that is confusing and a pretty blatant challenge of lists that are both officialised and have seen plenty of playtesting. This is kust bound to piss off people, sorry. Your issues with the original lists are understood and being discussed. Suggestions would be something like "Red Corsairs" for BL?s aBL list and "Whateverworld Chaos Insurrection" for Magarch?s aLatD. |
Author: | Magarch [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
(Irondeath @ Mar. 20 2008,18:39) QUOTE I?d advise both you and BL to pick another name besides "Alternate" BL/LatD, for the simple reason that is confusing and a pretty blatant challenge of lists that are both officialised and have seen plenty of playtesting. This is kust bound to piss off people, sorry. It wasn't made to piss off people, but I'm sorry to say they are in fact true other (and personnal) versions of Lost and Damned and Black Legion. Red Corsair list was already presented by Blacklegion and is different from his alternate Black Legion list. So there is no sense trying to change what they truly are ; another way to play them, just like the different tyranid lists. But it doesn't really bother me to change the name of my list, so I will do it. Blacklegion will do what he feels right for his list, though. |
Author: | Irondeath [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
Thanks. |
Author: | pixelgeek [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
Can one of the mods move this to the fan lists section please. Thanks |
Author: | Magarch [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | [fanlist] Alternate Lost and Damned Army List |
(pixelgeek @ Mar. 20 2008,20:02) QUOTE Can one of the mods move this to the fan lists section please. Thanks Trouble is, there is no "fan list section". This list is Chaos related, it isn't misplaced or something. And honestly, if you have something to say to a mod, send a MP to one of them rather than posting that kind of thing here. You don't like my list ? I'm not forcing you to play with it... |
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