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[fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:26 pm 
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This was an easy one :D
Took the Red Corsairs armylist, added the Death Wheel, replaced Strike Cruiser and Battle Barge with Devastation and Despoiler and added Black Legion fluff.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:34 pm 
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Bloody good, IMHO.

I really like the list structure (Support / Core formations) and the pricing conventions (No free characters).


I think that having 'generic' Daemons isn't an entirely terrible idea, as long as you also make a more detailed Daemonic Legion army list. :D


Oh and Obliterators going up to 100pts isn't entirely nonsensical.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:45 pm 
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Well, it IS an alternative Black Legion army list (no pun intended on my nickname), isn't it? ;)

As the Red Corsairs this is based on the currrent Codex Chaos Space Marines which shows the Red Corsairs and the Black Legion as main examples.

And if youl ike it or not. Chaos is mainly Imperials gone bad and thus have largely the same equipment available.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:08 pm 
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I took a quick and dislike at least these


So that's the stuff that you don't like... is there anything that you do like?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:33 pm 
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Also the Armoured Company should be core (it is in BL list without problems).


There were huge problems with the armour company (Massed Decimators rolling all before them), which is why it is now 0-2 in the official list.

As ever, a scaling limit (Such as the one in this list) has the potential to be more balanced than a non-scaling 0-x quick fix.

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rpr
 Post subject: [fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:44 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 20 2008,15:33)
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Also the Armoured Company should be core (it is in BL list without problems).


There were huge problems with the armour company (Massed Decimators rolling all before them), which is why it is now 0-2 in the official list.

As ever, a scaling limit (Such as the one in this list) has the potential to be more balanced than a non-scaling 0-x quick fix.

Armoured, not Assault :] I'm with Hena here, I might swap Terminators for this.


In overall I like the list structure over the old one.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:05 pm 
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Terminators = Terminators
Chosen = Chaos Space Marines with Scout
But if this confues i could rename Chosen to Possessed (after all they can gain Inifltrate in Wh40k and as a Turn in Epic represents a whole game of Wh40k they would often alternate their boni due to being possessed)

The Defiler: Sofar i know there ar eno commonly agreed stats about it for an updated version.
But yes ic could add my own version :)

Greater Daemon is not only cheaper it costs only 6 summoning points too.

Augment Summoning is in there. The Chaos Champion upgrade has it. It's unchanged from the official BL army list.

One Daemon Princes for each factions would only result in a 0-5 limit on the Daemon Princes in the army and perhabs you want equip 2-3 of them with wings and the others not :D
But perhabs i should scrap this limit alltogether and change the TK attack to MW. He isn't THAT powerful in WH40k

But initially i didn't want to change the stats of units already present in the official BL armylist (this is valid for all alternative CSM army lists i posted so far).

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: [fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:07 pm 
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I would swap bikermices for armour. But that has more to do my despice of bikers than anything else... But anyhoo, I think Armour belongs to core (and Assault to support). I have nothing against termies to be in core.

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Crabowl
 Post subject: [fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:12 pm 
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I don't like the thunderhawk as they have already invented new aircrafts plus they have daemons as their 'trick' and they don't need both. Plaguereaper and brass scorp could have their friends from tzeentch and slaanesh too (or that dreaded chaos baneblade to replace them both). The mandatory lords make the legion feel like it was made by some younger 40k player who always takes max characters and stacks them with all the wargear they can carry, with snot dripping from the nose, and constantly yelling "I will pwn for Chaos with my Daemon Weapon!!!". The real effect of them is that the formations will be slightly more expensive and it prevents min-maxing at the expense of having less activations and that makes the list a bit dull. Combine that with the expensive core choices and limited support choices and it pretty much dictates that if you want to have even 10 usable activations you need to spend a lot of points on tits and navy. Other than that I like it more than the original but I'd still take regular marines over these just for popcorn..

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Irondeath
 Post subject: [fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:41 pm 
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I?d advise both you and Magarch to pick another name besides "Alternate" BL/LatD, for the simple reason that is confusing and a pretty blatant challenge of lists that are both officialised and have seen plenty of playtesting. This is kust bound to piss off people, sorry.

Your issues with the original lists are understood and being discussed.

Suggestions would be something like "Red Corsairs" for BL?s aBL list and "Whateverworld Chaos Insurrection" for Magarch?s aLatD.

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Kleomenes
 Post subject: [fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:52 pm 
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(Irondeath @ Mar. 20 2008,18:41)
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I?d advise both you and Magarch to pick another name besides "Alternate" BL/LatD, for the simple reason that is confusing and a pretty blatant challenge of lists that are both officialised and have seen plenty of playtesting. This is kust bound to piss off people, sorry.

Your issues with the original lists are understood and being discussed.

Suggestions would be something like "Red Corsairs" for BL?s aBL list and "Whateverworld Chaos Insurrection" for Magarch?s aLatD.

+1

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:54 pm 
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Ehm..there is already a Red Corsairs armylist wit this name ;)

And my Black Legion proposal IS an alternative. Albeit not an official one. :)

It is a different approach. I see no problem to have for example an Air Assault Ultramarines army list a Ground Assault Ultramarines army list.
It follows the design philosophy behind the army lists.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: [fanlist] Alternate Black Legion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:48 pm 
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But well...if you guys here really want a different name. What should i use?
The list is based on Abbadons 13th Black Crusade. But i can't name it "Abbadons 13th Black Crusade Horde" because this should include lots of Lost and the Damned units (same would be valid for a "3rd War of Armageddon Defence Force" which should have a mix of Space Marines and Imperial Guard units).

So what else? "Black Legion Assault Force"? "Black Legion Incursion"? Ideas?

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