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| Red Corsairs (or generic Chaos Space Marines) http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=12019 |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:01 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Red Corsairs (or generic Chaos Space Marines) | ||
Hi there. I have developed a Chaos Space Marine armylist based on the new Codex which mainly feratures Renegade Chapter Chaos Space Marines. As signature force i choosed the Red Corsairs. I hope you will like it and critisism is always welcome Edit: As attachment now V3.3 in black&white. Only the list itself with reference sheet.
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| Author: | clausewitz [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
There doesn't seem to be much that is different from the Black Legion. Different SHTs in the assault company. Much weaker demons (especially greater demons). 40 points for raptors. And a slightly odd 0-1 restriction on what looks like the Forlorn Hope formation, but is labelled "Choosen". Are there other changes I haven't noticed? [Oh, and another variation on the demolisher gun  ] |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
It'd be really nice to see the plaguereaper replace the decimator in the BL list. *sigh* |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
There are some significant differences: - No factions and therefore a flat +1 initiative for all formations (but aircraft should be 2+ i will correct this) - no restrictions on Raptors but for this i made them a bit more expensive. - renamed the Forlorn Hope to Choosen which they basically are. - added Vindicators and Spawns as upgrades (and forgot to mention which formations can have them.....*sigh*) - replaced Decimator and Death Wheel with Baneblade and Plaguereaper (and forgot to include the Brass Scorpion...) - replaced all faction specific daemons with general ones but perhabs the Greater Daemon needs some more oomph. Perhabs +1 or +2 EA with MW? - if you don't like Lance on the Demolisher Cannon just use Ignore Cover instead 
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| Author: | pixelgeek [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
(BlackLegion @ Feb. 20 2008,19:40) QUOTE - renamed the Forlorn Hope to Choosen which they basically are. Huh? Cult Marines != Chosen |
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| Author: | pixelgeek [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
(Evil and Chaos @ Feb. 20 2008,14:53) QUOTE It'd be really nice to see the plaguereaper replace the decimator in the BL list. Why? |
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| Author: | pixelgeek [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
So after having a look... Why are you using generic Lesser and Greater Daemons? I assume that the Baneblade is to make up for the Black Legion specific fluff for the Decimator and the Death Wheel? Test it, but Raptors are nasty... even if they are more expensive :-) |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
(pixelgeek @ Feb. 21 2008,08:22) QUOTE (Evil and Chaos @ Feb. 20 2008,14:53) QUOTE It'd be really nice to see the plaguereaper replace the decimator in the BL list. Why? Because the decimator was never incorporated into other areas of 40k. Other areas of 40k (Art books, the 40k game, 40k books, White Dwarf, the 40k trading card game, plus more) do see Chaos Marines (Incl the black legion) with: - Traitor Baneblades - Plaguereapers Decimators have been categorically dropped by the GW studio... and I'm not a fan of gratuitous variances that : a- Require new players to do a conversion because there isn't a model. b- Are entirely unfamiliar and help to dissuade new players from picking up Epic. Newbie players want to see all the familiar stuff from 40k, plus some extras. To a newbie to Epic (Coming from 40k), they expect to see the Plaguereaper in the Black Legion list (It is their most iconic Chaos super-heavy tank), and they probably expect a Baneblade too; Instead the Epic list has something completely different, with no relation to the game they know. This does not help attract new players. Frankly, the BL list has more serious balance problems, but it does tweak my 'user friendliness' funnybone. EDIT: As near as can be told, the 'ancient super-heavy used by Chaos' concept tank is now the 'Fellblade', which is simply a Baneblade with a rounded turret (Looks like a 70's era Soviet tank's turret). Why are you using generic Lesser and Greater Daemons? Because that's the direction GW have gone with their Chaos army lists / codexes for at least a year now. They split 'Chaos' into three distinct sub-factions: - Chaos Marines (They have a Codex, focusing on the Black Legion & Undivided Marines in the form of the Red Corsairs) - Chaos Daemons (They'll have a Codex very soon, allowing the full range of Daemons) - Chaos Human Traitors (They have an Imperial Armour book and models from Forgeworld, mostly focused on human traitors with minimal Chaos Marine support) Two of the above lists are allowed to take Baneblades, but only Chaos Marines can take Plaguereapers. They did it in the cause of balance, and in order to make the army lists more focused and characterful, unlike the homogenous Chaos army lists of the past. There will be more Chaos sub-lists produced, like World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Lost & the Damned, etc, as time goes on. I assume that the Baneblade is to make up for the Black Legion specific fluff for the Decimator and the Death Wheel? Nope, the Baneblade and Plaguereaper have *replaced* the Decimator's spot with the Black Legion. The Plaguereaper is kinda cool too (A Chaos-corrupted Baneblade, rather than an uncorrupted Baneblade variant). Statwise, you could probably simply rename the Decimator to Plaguereaper, and the stats would fit pretty well (IIRC the Plaguereaper has no sponson weapons, but if it lost its sponson weapons in Epic, maybe it could keep MW status on the main gun instead of being downgraded to Disrupt). In the same manner, the Brass Scorpion has replaced the Death Wheel's spot as the Black Legion's 'large Daemon Engine'. The Decimator and Death Wheel will never be mentioned again by GW; They will be Squatted as abandoned concepts. |
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| Author: | rpr [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
About the list: now is good chance to fix errors in Black Legion, instead of duplicating them... Terminators 300 for 4 with lord, +60 for each extra up to 4 extra Raptors 200 for 4 with lord, +35 for each extra up to 4 extra Obliterators 100 pts with current stats Generic Lesser and Greater daemons are too weak - why to take generic lesser daemonsd when compared to daemonic beasts, why would someone try to summon that greater daemon instead of 8 daemonic beasts. Like the overall 0-1 limit to Daemon Prince. Chaos Navy initiative 1+ - ok if this would apply to other chaos armies also (would be logical I guess, compare to SM thunderhawks and space ships) |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
Daemons: Jervis commented specifically on the daemons when he reviewed the BL and L&D lists. He noted that the generic CSMs were going to have generic daemons but since they were going to be differentiated again (i.e. the Daemon Codex) that leaving them differentiated was fine. |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
@Pixelgeek: Since when are the unit in the Forlorn Hope supposed to be Cult Marines??? The Forlorn Hope consists of Veteran CSM = Chosen or Possessed. If you use a CSM army you can't use the Daemons from Codex Daemons. You are restrictet to the general Lesser and Greater Daemons. @Evil&Chaos: The Plaguereaper is a Baneblade wich replaces his Banbelade Cannon and Autocannon with the Pus Cannon. So it has the same secondary armament ie sponsons. And i'm thinking of renaming the Chaos Baneblade to Fellblade.  @rpr: Yes the Greater Dameonis too weak. The Lesser Daemons are just fine. Andno the Rec Corsairs won't have accsess to Daemonic Beasts because they don't exist in the WH40k Codex For the points adjustments i will see what i will do. And the chaos navy initiative is amistake as stated above. It should be 2+. Expect an updated list in a few hours. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
(BlackLegion @ Feb. 21 2008,16:08) QUOTE @Evil&Chaos: The Plaguereaper is a Baneblade wich replaces his Banbelade Cannon and Autocannon with the Pus Cannon. So it has the same secondary armament ie sponsons. And i'm thinking of renaming the Chaos Baneblade to Fellblade. Yep you're right.  @rpr: Yes the Greater Dameonis too weak. The Lesser Daemons are just fine. Andno the Rec Corsairs won't have accsess to Daemonic Beasts because they don't exist in the WH40k Codex Well, we all know that the Daemonic Beasts are really Flesh hounds, whilst flesh hounds themselves get no official rules. 
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
Version1.1 is up (see first posting) Changelog: - typos - changed Critical Hit Effect of the Plaguereaper, deleted the Autocannon. - added Brass Scorpion. - added which formations can take Chaos Vindicators and Chaos Spawns. - adjusted points cost for Helltalons to proposed stats. - adjusted points cost for Obliterators, Raptors and Terminators. - added some MW EA to the Greater Daemon And as always: if you don't like Lance on the Demolisher Cannon just change it to Ignore Cover |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
I definately don't like lance on the demolisher cannon at all. Lance should only be on lance weapons! |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | [fanlist] Red Corsairs (or general Chaos Marines) |
I don't like the lancing demolisher either. It's not the Demolisher cannon that needs upgrading... it's that Demolisher-armed vehicles (ESPECIALLY the Vindicator) are simply overpriced. |
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