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Basilisk vs Defiler - which would you take?

The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Basilisk vs Defiler - which would you take?

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:51 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
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Edit - found out the defiler has more guns.

Heh, I've been playing it with less firepower and was still quizzical :laugh:

Artillery, specifically the defiler. It does seem a bit... undercosted currently. And within the list completely negates the traitor basilisk options. Why? Well, would you take basilisks over the defiler? Look at the comparison.

Undivided Defiler
4 for 350 points
Traitor Basilisk
4 for 325 points (and considering that the firepower is double a unit of three for 250 points some may consider this a bit cheap)
So 25 points difference. What does a defiler gain for this 25 extra points and lose?
Speed - 5cm slower, so can garrison. Also has walker so can get into dangerous terrain.
Save - 4+ with an invulnerable save compared to a basilisks 5+
CC - 4+ (and extra MW attack) compared to a basilisks 6+
FF - 3+ (and extra attack) compared to a basilisks 5+
Weapons fit.
Defiler
Defiler Cannon 75cm AP4+/AT4+ or 1BP Indirect Fire
Battle Claws (base) Assault Weapon Extra Attack (+1), Macro Weapon
Twin Lascannon 45cm AT4+
Defiler Heavy Flamer 15cm AP4+ Ignore cover + +1 FF attack
Basilisk
Earthshaker 120cm AP4+/AT4+ or 1BP Indirect Fire
Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+
The Defiler can 'only' indirect out to 150cm, but can garrison to get forward. Its secondary weapons fit ensures assault is not the way to deal with it and it generates more short range defensive fire than a basilisk.
Finally the Defiler is Fearless.

Overall the basilisk can move 5cm faster and has a longer main gun range. The Defiler has lots of advantages. As a general unit it wins hands down. As an artillery piece 150cm covers from the centre of a 6x4 table to all corners and if really needed it can garrison forward. It is twice as likely to survive hits and is fearless and cannot be dealt with easily in assault like a basilisk.

So what am I missing here?

Incidentally Audrey did you every get to test out the ?stacks of defilers? warband we played in London? (Did we post the bat rep on the old site?)

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Irondeath

Post subject: Basilisk vs Defiler - which would you take?

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:36 pm

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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:36 pm
Posts: 653

The thought occured to me as well when Audrey pre-released the list in the yahoo group. Since she?s on vacation I?ll quote my thoughts and her reply:

> Defilers: Still unsure. 325 for 4 Basiliks, 350 for 4 Defilers.
> Basiliks win on range, but 150 indirect and far better durability makes this
> an easy choice. My approach to the problem is known

Play test it. After people have played a number of games we can start
the debate again.

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dysartes

Post subject: Basilisk vs Defiler - which would you take?

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:47 pm

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TRC, don't forget that the DEfiler is packing the Twin Lascannon and Defiler Heavy Flamer as well as the two weapon systems you mentioned there.

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Basilisk vs Defiler - which would you take?

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:25 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
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Location: London

I always wonder about playtesting stuff like this - does it mean after everyone has played it lots and no-one has taken basilisks its a problem, or if players take both types and compare there performance against each other its seen as a problem?

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wraeththu

Post subject: Basilisk vs Defiler - which would you take?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:59 pm

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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:34 pm
Posts: 231

Why? Well, would you take basilisks over the defiler? Look at the comparison.

The Defiler is creating an issue. ?First in the CSM list the Defiler is mixed with infantry units. ?By doing so it slows down that formation and players felt it wasn't worth taking. ?So the Defiler was lowered in cost and its assault abilities were increased. ?Originally the Defiler was mixed in with the L&D coven, like the CSM. ?But since all of the other daemon engines were in separate formations I chose to make the Defilers as separate formation as well. ?I knew that in doing so the Defilers for the L&D would be used mainly as artillery support. ?Which some people did not like, but I am fine with it and it seems most others are as well. ?So now that the Defilers are a separate formation I do believe their value has increased and so should their points. ?But the question is how much. ?There was a lot of debate back ad forth about this, especially since Defilers only cost 75pts for the CSM. ?Right now I would say Defilers should be about 400-425pts, though others did not agree. ?But with all of the changes that were made to the L&D list I felt it would be better to get the list out for play testers. ?Then we can focus on specific items such as raising the Defiler's cost.

Incidentally Audrey did you every get to test out the ?stacks of defilers? warband we played in London? (Did we post the bat rep on the old site?)

No I do not remember seeing that.

-Audrey

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Legion 4

Post subject: Basilisk vs Defiler - which would you take?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:24 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
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Is G/W going to release new models for Chaos/Cultists ?!?!

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nealhunt

Post subject: Basilisk vs Defiler - which would you take?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:52 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Last word was: re-release the old stuff, plus some of the old stuff that was never released (chaos dreads/bikes), plus a couple new models (obliterators and defilers).

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Legion 4

Post subject: Basilisk vs Defiler - which would you take?

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:48 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
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Thanks Neal ! I look forward to thoses ! :;):

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Basilisk vs Defiler - which would you take?

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:42 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
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Location: London

Quote (wraeththu @ 26 2005 July,18:59)

First in the CSM list the Defiler is mixed with infantry units.

No I do not remember seeing that.

Yes - it makes it a hard unit to port over.

I'll try and find the bat rep and re-post it.

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