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L&D v3.2 army list
nealhunt
 Post subject: L&D v3.2 army list
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:14 pm 
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An interseting idea, I think we will just have to disagree on this though.


Yep.  Agreed.

I am actually of the opinion that land transporters have an inherent points value of 15 - 17.5 pts so currently


This I don't understand.  I'd like to hear your reasoning for that point value.  Here's mine:

Chimera is pretty much an undisputed 25 points.  It has twice the firepower.  The difference in firepower alone would drop the LT to 17-18 points.  Then you have to take into account the LV status and the Chimera's better assault ability (in an assault-oriented list).  And there are other minor factors like LVs don't provide cover to infantry in base contact (a not inconsiderable effect in this army).

IMHO, those are worth at least another 2-3 points in total, but I think it's probably more like 3-4.  Hence, my valuation of 12-14 points, probably on the high end.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: L&D v3.2 army list
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:21 pm 
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Time to voice your opinion. So how does everyone feel, do think the Land Transporter should be 10pts or 15pts?


You're probably sick of my opinion by now, and you've seen my above valuation before.  I don't think either point value will cause a serious problem even when abused, and will probably be less than a couple percent difference in most armies.

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Markconz
 Post subject: L&D v3.2 army list
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:12 pm 
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Well I 'll tell you my gut impression about tactics concerning the LT when I first read 3.2 L&D (not having read earlier versions). It went something like this:

Hey cool conversion opportunity... hmm a light vehicle transport ??? Wow only 10 points!!  

At 10 points (when I'm used to 25 for my ork light vehicles) I seriously considered this such a bargain that I would use it _even if the cultists didn't ride in it!_ If the enemy had signiificant arty I would avoid being caught in it, if not the cultists can zoom where they will.

My feeling is that 15 points is preferable to 10. Would I rather have 6 Chimeras or 10 LT's?  That seems a reasonable choice to me.

However, it is important to emphasize that these are just my initial impressions and they are not based on any playtesting (except perhaps comparisons with my mechanised ork lists).

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Chroma
 Post subject: L&D v3.2 army list
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:22 pm 
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I've got to vote for 15 points as well, better to nip to potential for abuse early and revisit it at the eventual rules review.  I think, in EPIC especially, caution is the best approach for balancing units.

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mageboltrat
 Post subject: L&D v3.2 army list
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:40 am 
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The general consensus seems to be that they are a bit better than 10pts but not really worth 15pts. As I guess we can't price them at 12pts, because nothing is not a multiple of 5pts yet. I would go for the 10pts. I'd rather promote the use of them over Chimeras than penalise the use of them over Chimeras. They are a unit only available in the L&D List and I would rather a L&D army looked like a L&D army than a IG clone, with some evil Daemon engines in.

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yme-loc
 Post subject: L&D v3.2 army list
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:33 pm 
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Quote (nealhunt @ 05 Dec. 2005 (19:14))
An interseting idea, I think we will just have to disagree on this though.


Yep. ?Agreed.

I am actually of the opinion that land transporters have an inherent points value of 15 - 17.5 pts so currently


This I don't understand. ?I'd like to hear your reasoning for that point value. ?Here's mine:

Chimera is pretty much an undisputed 25 points. ?It has twice the firepower. ?The difference in firepower alone would drop the LT to 17-18 points. ?Then you have to take into account the LV status and the Chimera's better assault ability (in an assault-oriented list). ?And there are other minor factors like LVs don't provide cover to infantry in base contact (a not inconsiderable effect in this army).

IMHO, those are worth at least another 2-3 points in total, but I think it's probably more like 3-4. ?Hence, my valuation of 12-14 points, probably on the high end.

Ah but you see I think the chimera should be 30pts and is underpriced as well :D

Didnt think there was much point bringing that up though.

Even with a chimera at 25pts it doesnt effect the land transporters abilities in terms of a reasonable armour save and more importantly numbers and speed, In epic that speed is very useful and to me the land transporters a bargain even at 15pts.

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yme-loc
 Post subject: L&D v3.2 army list
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:35 pm 
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Quote (wraeththu @ 05 Dec. 2005 (17:22))
Ok I caught an error in LT stat. ?The Heavy Weapons are supposed to match the same stat line as the Cultists. ?In v3.2 it is AP5+/AT6+ it should be AP6+/AT6+. ?I doubt this will drastically change anyone's view in this debate.

But I am not sure that a 15pt LT would be worth while when you can pay 10 more pts for a Chimera which has more firepower, is armoured and has a better FF value.

I am sure this debate could go on for quite sometime, but a decision needs to be made. Time to voice your opinion. So how does everyone feel, do think the Land Transporter should be 10pts or 15pts?

Land Transporter 10pts (15pts?)

LV / 30cm / SV: 5+ / CC: 6+ / FF: 6+
Heavy Weapons 30cm AP6+/AT6+
Transport (2)

Traitor Chimera 25pts

AV / 30cm / SV: 5+ / CC: 6+ / FF: 5+
Mutilaser 30cm AP5+/AT6+
Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+
Transport (2)

-Audrey

Hmm! actually makes quite a difference in its fire power makes it worth dead on 15pts as oposed to a little more.

Any way you know my view

15pts for the land transporter.

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