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Defilers
Ekranoplan
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:59 am 
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Defilers seem way to fragile for their points cost.  A hundred points a pop wouldn't be to bad if you could mix them in with the covens, thus being able to use their firefight and assault abilities more efficiently.  But as a formation on their own they are either behind a hill lending artillery and wasting their superd assault abilities, or creeping forward and getting shot to peices (even with cover!)
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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:47 am 
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Another example of a unit that doesn't make a lot of sense on a battlefield at 6mm scale unfortunately.

Even in 40K they have been given a speed increase

One option (other than the speed increase) is perhaps to assume that they are all daemonically possessed and give them an IS.

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Irondeath
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:17 pm 
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Well they are supposed to be possessed and have an IS!

Defilers can be garrisoned if one should wish so. They are indeed most effective as a fearless artillery unit tucked away out of LOS, with their assault abilities keeping away less determined attackers.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:42 pm 
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(Irondeath @ Aug. 07 2007,09:17)
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Well they are supposed to be possessed and have an IS!

Shows how often I use them.

Possession is an option in 40K is it not?

With the Dreads and the Defilers I am not sure that anything other than RA will make them fit into the roll they are supposed to have in the game.

I know they increased the speed in the new Codex but did they change the armour of the Defiler as well?

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:27 pm 
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Possession is an option in 40K is it not?


It sort of depends on how you look at it.

There is a "Possessed" vehicle upgrade, but by the background all Defilers are possessed by daemonic entities.

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TheLimey
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:52 pm 
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Not being a 40K player, I'm a little confused on this. What role is a Defiler meant to play?

Images I've seen show this as a combat monster, but the stats show it also having a gun that can lay down a barrage. Neither fish nor fowl sort of thing.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:17 pm 
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(TheLimey @ Aug. 09 2007,06:52)
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Not being a 40K player, I'm a little confused on this. What role is a Defiler meant to play?

I think they are meant to play the "these look really cool" role in a 40K force.

The concept wasn't very well thought out which is why the stats for them got tweaked in the new codex to make the faster and, I think, tougher.

Its a 40K unit so that makes it an infantry support unit. It adds some CC abilities but mostly it allows the force to get additional heavy weapons.

Its not a very well thought out concept and it really doesn't translate well to Epic.

It has all the same problems as the Dreadnought but with none of its drop pod options.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:30 pm 
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If I'm not mistaken, the rumors are also that the 40K CSM Codex removes the indirect fire option from the Defiler battlecannon in order to reinforce its direct-support/charge-into-combat background.

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TheLimey
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:32 pm 
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perhaps we need to split this into variant defilers? One support, and one the close combat monster.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:34 pm 
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I would scrap IndirectFire. Give it 20cm move or 15cm and Infiltrate and an extra MW CC attack.

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:37 pm 
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I agree with Black Legion.

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Steve54
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:28 pm 
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I usually take a defiler in my BL tournament list for 3 reasons-

- to provide cover
- for that 1bp, always useful for sniping at artillery
- I've taken the trouble to make some and want to use them

Remove that indirect fire and they probably won't be worth it

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:52 pm 
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I agree. We'd need to remodel the entire unit if we took away its 1BP indirect fire option. Without it they are not worth the points.

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TheLimey
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:52 pm 
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The Desecrator version on the Death Guard list already does not have the 1BP, and instead has a AA value.

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Ekranoplan
 Post subject: Defilers
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:59 am 
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I would definetly like to beable to take defilers in cultists covens, in addition to removing their indirect ability and replacing it with a greater move or infiltrate.  They are very handy in a firefight or close combat.
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