I would like to partially agree with depdexys. I have had most success with mono lists, but have also found that a list divided and played in two halves worked well (Khorne & Slaanesh). The only draw back came later on in games where hatred could become a factor.

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NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Played tonight. Only at one time did I have my Contagion Towers within 15cm of a Slaanesh Coven. It failed a roll to activate (rolled a 2) and I forgot to use the Arch Heretic. Other than that, my army was very mono daemonic.

It's just luck I guess. I cannot help wonder however what destruction that formation would have caused otherwise to the Overwatch-ing Orks .

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Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Just a query: are the stats right on the Hell Talon? I was under the impression that the drop in points from 300 to 175 was to be accompanied by reducing their bombs to 1BP each, but the document says they're still at 2. Is that correct?

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"Good ale, the true and proper drink of Englishmen. He is not deserving of the name of Englishman who speaketh against ale, that is good ale."
- George Borrow

Another test with BL tonight

My list
Retinue+Prince+Rhinos+Pact+Stalker
Retinue+Rhinos+Stalker
4 Predators+Stalker
6 Raptors+Pact
6 Raptors+pact
Scouts+rhinos+pact
Scouts+rhinos+pact
Death wheel
Death Wheel
Fighters
8 Daemons

Few initial comments (as I'm on WHWs incredibly slow wifi)
- stalkers - fine at stats as they provide a bit of a deterrent but Thawks were still willing to fly through them especially on the disengage
- The list is, if anything, stronger for there addition as it remves the mobility problems that BL previously had
- My main reservation is that it felt very like playing as SM but with bigger formations+daemons but no ATSKNF and air assaults. BL had a different feel before whereas this felt more like a variant marine list.

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NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

BL has just had a mech. style made added to the current style, the old "infantry and war engines" style is still quite possible, surely.


I playtested Tau this evening, not Chaos, sorry.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

No problem - there are several lists you are involved with so obviously lots of different armies to test. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion though that a lot of other people with very vocal views don't actually play that much.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Steve

While I am painting the World Eaters up, I will be helping out playtests for LatD and also the Necrons where I can

So my mouth will be where the action is. It just may take me a few games to get up to speed with using the list, that's all  

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Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Great - its good to see the LatD getting some play

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

After the games with Steve54 yesterday I agree with his earlier post.

The stalkers were fine but the list did seem more powerful.
I'd much prefer using the list at a tourney with the stalker than the Oblit. as AA cover but would much prefer to face the Oblit. heavy army than the stalker list .

You could no longer attempt to take out the fast stuff and run rings are the foot retinues, everything was fast moving.
For me one of the big drawbacks and weakness' of BL is gone (footslogging/slow moving AA).

The stalkers AA was better than the newer version of the Oblit. why 4 x 6+ attacks.
As for players thinking it would be easier to suppress the flak, no it wasn't.
With the formations having rhinos they could now hide behind cover and avoid being targeted altogether (and still have a bigger effective range) instead of the foot retinues being in cover but in LofS.
You've now also got to put more BM's on the formation to cut the AA coverage.


As a recap, I'd prefer to play with the Stalker but against the Obliterator.
To me that shows that it should be a no for the list but if thats what is preferred then so be it.
I just hope the Epic-UK list changes doesn't incorporate it as I believe we will see the BL lists be even more dominant by the good players  at UK tourneys.

That's an interesting point.

I played against this list yesterday which was a more traditional BL army using downgraded AA oblits and fighters rather than stalkers.

I didn't have any air, so the AA was largely irrelevent but that was the trick to beating them - taking out the fast stuff first and then ganging up on the slower retinues.

I must admit I am coming round to the idea that simply reducing the Oblits AA value is the best solution.

The game was a 3-1 turn 3 win for the Eldar.

Incidentally:  Linking to this thread: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums....y361575
A combination of Falcons, stripping void shields and adding blast markers and supporting fire followed by a Warlock titan engagement broke an intermingled retinue and death wheel - the Warlock taking 3 points of damage and losing it's holofields in the process.  That's 1000 pts worth of eldar with the drop on the chaos forces and neither chaos fm was wiped out due to the fearless units.  The broken retinue later rallied, summoned daemons and killed the Warlock.

There's nothing wrong with dropping that to 2x5+, or 1x4+ @30cm range. Or it could get even worse (2x6+, or whatever).


To me it just shows that the Stalker is a better AA truck than the Obliterator as it acts as a force multiplyer (allows a mech. style to become possible), and so could probably do with a price bump from its current test price to compensate for its good synergy with Rhinos.

It was always pretty lame that most Black Legion army lists didn't bother with Rhinos/Transports and just became a foot-slogging infantry rush army... they're supposed to be the best Chaos has to offer, not spikey Orks.  


I can't see the EpicUK group adopting all that many of the NetEA changes really, judging by their conservative change approach to date.

Which means it's pretty likely you won't have to worry about the Stalker in the future.  

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Stomp, why did you leave the titan so close to the troops after winning? Was it a gamble to win init next turn and finish the job off? If so I guess the black legion won the initiative next turn!

In short, there was no-where else to hide, I hid behind the only piece of LOS blocking cover within 25 cm.  Given the situation I left the Warlock within 30cm so as to hinder rallying and/or be able to finish them if I went first in the 3rd turn.  I stacked the odds in my favour, the dice just didn't agree with me, lol.

It was fair enough and i can't complain.  I do realise that the Warlock is a beast when things go well but it's still quite fragile and I just can't see why people have a problem with it.  Taking it hard from one in a couple of games can skew people's views a bit but with the application of some thought it can be taken down, impacts the entire list as a whole (No air power at all, lower activation count etc) and is a mission objective in it's own right.

Anyway back to chaos,  

Chaos Marines should be able to play mechanised just as easily as Guard, Eldar or any other mobile army. Nothing about Chaos Marines defines them as being a slow or infantry based army and if they have often or optimally been that till now (which I hadn't really realised but then I've only played them once) then I'd say that is a distinct failing of the original design and it's lack of mobile AA, which should now be corrected.

If the Stalker makes the playtest changed list a bit too good then tweak the stats and/or cost of it and/or other elements of the army.