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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:16 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Belgium
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(Hena @ Mar. 21 2008,10:07)
QUOTE Sure you can argue that it's a "meat shield" but it certainly is not that in Lost and the Damned list. In there the demons are very good at assault compared to cultists.
Yes, but again it is so tempting (and so useful !) to use them as meatshields so that the big infantry formations can survive for a longer time. The "disposable like" rule is the main reason of this - and after all, daemons have a so good Armor (with Invulnerable Save, after all) that they can actually survive to the hit, saving a small cultist for later.
Those two factors make them so much better as meatshields, even for the Lost and the Damned. In my games with this list (I'm talking about the official one, not my fan list), I tend to use them more as meatshields rather than true assault troops...That's why I'm displeased with the current rules.
If they had a lesser Armor and no "disposable like" rule, then things would be very different...But then they would be so less useful and, I'm sure of it, not really that important to summon in mortal formations rather than gathered in their own formations.
Well I partly agree. However the main difference is the super heavies. Marines don't have those. Also the marine formations are more expensive and smaller due to ATSKNF which helps very much in balancing the variability. That is the reason why the 2 tiered is kind of needed.
I believe super heavies just should be in the heavy support section, along with chaos navy and titans. It solves a lot of troubles with "war engines heavy" lists. Of course, that makes them much less interesting (hey, you have to choose that way), but Black Legion still have many choices and they don't need to have war engines outside of that famous "third of army points".
About the titans...
And here I don't. There is stylistic reason to not make Chaos things to be "same as imperial but with Demons!".
Well, in that case, I would like to fully use the "God marked titans" idea ; give to the Black Legion not just Khorne marked titans, but Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh marked ones as well. After all, you can choose cult marines and daemons from all of the four gods. Why not the titans ?
Then you'll have a true "Black Legion feeling" choice. For now, just Khorne is a bit...frustrating.
Since I like the different Demons, I'm obviously against this kind of thing. Once more I'm inclined to think that 40k doesn't quite represent the size of the armies and thus the army restrictions isn't quite the same. Also I'm not sure that following all the moves of 40k is wise.
Fine for the faction rule, but then give me Slaanesh, Nurgle and Tzeentch marked titans for Black Legion, and not just Khorne. 
But you know, everything is not bad in the way W40k is evolving. Sure, it's no more the same than before with only four Gods and their daemons, with nothing else truly represented outside of them...But then I like the possibility to play "Undivided Greater Daemons" to represent one of the many powerful being in the Warp. I always found stupid that this huge dimension has only the Four Gods as Supreme Powers and nothing else about the "smaller" Chaos being that represent Undivided Chaos, speaking about representation in the Chaos armies.
Generic Daemons are also a good way to simplify the rules of the list. It's not saying that marked daemons don't exist anymore ; just that the differences are not that important to the "eye" of the Epic system. Same for "generic Chaos titans". Truth is, it's more difficult to playtest a list with a myriad of different profiles, one for each God...'cause there are so many possible combos and that a "small" difference at first can be in fact quite important.
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