Uhmm...Black Legion has Obliterators as 0-3 Upgrade.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

I think he is aware of that BL

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

But Steve54's preference would be a 0-1 limitation per formation in the Black Legion list... BlackLegion.  

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Arrgh! Overlooked the "prefered" bit....  

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

Played two games with the list. 3000points. Annihilated the eldar, yet lost to the Imperial Guard.

What I have noticed with the list that the formations are fairly easy to be broken. Not many units in the formations, no 'they shall know no fear' or summoning daemons.   How do you guys deal with this when playing chaos? (and not using daemons in some lists?)


BTW Steve, I noticed some bugs in the army list, have corrected them and will re-post the list once you add the titan changes (if you're still working on them). What about the assault marines formation/upgrade?  

Edit: played again with the list. I noticed sth - is it really ok for the Iron Warriors to be able to come up with a formation of 16 units of Marines? Iron warriors detachment + 4 bases of marines + 4 bases of havocs. That's 16 units of Marines for 590 points. I know it's expensive, just aking if we thought it through  

Played a couple more games, the list seems ok, however a couple of things I noticed:
- the shock troops are really needed... either as an upgrade or even better a different company, especially since the raptors are 0-1 and the lists sometimes lack variety with the infantry.
- I don't think we should be able to buy a 4th Basilisk. armies whou get artillery as a support can only buy formations of 3 units. I see no point in IW having four.
- Siege Dreadnought is never worth it, it's always better to get two normal ones. I recommend cutting the cost of it to 75pts instead of 100 (will add it's chart to the Doc.)
-Chaos terminators with no 'they shall know no fear'/summoning daemons ability tend to be easilly broken. Are they suppossed to act as a bomb? Teleport-destroy as much as possible-broken-withdraw  

A small question, when I have a formation of 6CSM + 2 Havocs and upgrade it with havocs (another 4 units) - does it mean I cannot no longer put the formation into Land riders (the limit is set to 'up to four land riders', and I would need six now)? DO i need to buy rhinos for the rest of the formation?

Thanks in advance :]

That's why I asked to be able to keep the Bezerker formations in (even if only for the stats rather than actually being Khorne follwers).

- I don't think we should be able to buy a 4th Basilisk. armies whou get artillery as a support can only buy formations of 3 units. I see no point in IW having four.

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.

It all comes down to cost Onyx. 4 basilisks have twice the firepower of 3 Basilisks. How then to cost them?

Maybe instead its should be different. Something like 0-2 basilisks (75 each as they aren't pure arty anymore) can be added to an iron warriors formation (as assault guns effectively and also representing your 40k battle set up), while the meat of the barrage comes from emplaced/transported Basilisk platforms (not shown in 40k). These chaps could come in batteries of 6+.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Yes, you're right with the artillery Onyx. And I like Chris's idea, could be fun.

The shock troops should be more like Berzerkers or Raptors stat wise? I think the cc2+ of berzerkers should be left only to World Eaters.
Can someone answer my question about the land riders BTW?  

Having read Storm of Iron, CC2+ seems quite appropriate for Kroeger and his band of semi/Khorne crazed warriors (Kroeger actually tears people in half with his hands as well as his other weapons).

The Bezerker formation already exists in the Chaos army list and it seems simple to just port it over to this list (with a re-name if neccessay).

It's fluffy and helps fill a need that Laylo has identified.

I quite like TRC's artillery ideas. I'd personally never use the Basalisk as an upgrade to a Warrior retinue but 6+ Basilisk guns in a formation is very appealing and fluffy.

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.

I can tell you if you keep them screened with rhinos and the like (well Chimera int he guard) they are excellent assault guns. Excellent doubling firepower and on turn 4 (sometimes three) if you are in position you can sustain as a weak arty barrage somewhere.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Fair points, I've just got to break out of my 'no artillery on mobile infantry' mind-set!

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.

I like both ideas, the artillery and shock troops suggestions. We will have to wait what Steve has to say about it.
(BTW Decided to get Tau as my second army as I have some FW minis and ordered some more along with the iron warriors )

and what about the huge infantry formations? aren't they a problem? If you add to the Iron Warriors detachments havocs and the regular chaos space marines upgrade you can have up to 16 units of space marines in the formation... that can be a little too much as I see how my friends struggle with formations of 12 units.   how about we give the option of only 'one infantry upgrade' like either havocs/regular marines/shock troops?

I've played quite a lot of games with the new list over the last two months and I'm really happy with it. 75% wins against eldar and the imperial guard. Usually we play for 3500pts per match and I have about 11-12 activations per list.

I noticed two things:
1. The list needs an Assault Marines upgrade, sth like Raptors but without the jump packs. Can we add them to the list? how about as a core formation but no more than 1 per Iron warriors detachment. Or as an upgrade. this will increase variety and gives the IW some shock troops for that beach in the wall   I just don't know how to cost them...  

2.The Iron Warriors detachment shouldn't be able to buy more than one infantry upgrade. For 300pts you have a lord, 6 CSM and 2 Havocs, add a Havoc upgrade (150pts)and 4 extra CSM units (140pts). You have a company for 590pts made up of 16 marine units, with a leader and 24 autocannon shots. Seems a little too much and it's extremely hard to eradicate for the opponent and they will probably hold that blitzkrieg for you no matter what happens.

How about we change it so that only 1 infantry upgrade is possible? Only CSM/or Havocs? or Assault Marines?. This way you won't be able to make the companies so huuuge. I know someone might say you throw in all your eggs into one basket, but still it does it's job.

Otherwise I think the list is very solid and with the above changes I would consider it finished.

Cheers, Laylo